4 ms·

I do notice, at least in my city, that there seem to be a lot more reports of violent crime in my area on citizen than I would expect from looking at the city's

I do notice, at least in my city, that there seem to be a lot more reports of violent crime in my area on citizen than I would expect from looking at the city's official crime map data. that said, I don't trust the city enough to conclude that the inaccuracy is mostly on citizen's side.

joe_the_user 5y ago
In most places, crimes are reported to the city by average people but then investigated to determine if anything actually occurred. As far as I know, Citizen lets people reports things with no filtering at all. So by all means, use an anti-government stance to trust a stream of completely unverified claims. My local paper does the service of publishing 911/police reports. Some would make it to a crime map but a lot of this merits a shrug. Example: "A caller from Rollins View Drive, near Bear Springs Road, reported a heated verbal altercation with a neighbor that ended when they spat in the caller’s face." - avoid heated arguments with neighbor. The only way this realistically gets into a crime report is if a cop/DA really doesn't like the spitter, etc. Overall: Of course, police reports aren't fully accurate but the reports of "Citizen", being completely unfiltered, allow wingnuts and busybodies put out their narrative in an unfettered fashion. https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-police-blotter-caller-says-man-was-following-woman-asking-for-sexual-favors/ https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-police-blotter-c...
- leetcrew 5y ago
  police are also known to intentionally downgrade or even discourage crime reports to improve statistics. this can either be overt ("do you really want to file a report for that?) or the result of no one giving a fuck the last time you bothered to report a crime. I'm sure there are a lot of misunderstandings or flat-out fabrications that make it onto citizen. I'm also quite certain there are a lot of crimes that are observed but don't get officially documented. maybe this is a wild thing to say, but I'm actually not 100% sure who I trust less between official police records and random community members.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Police is meant to use reasonable discresion, or our crime statistics will drown in jaywalking and antisocial behaviour
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      I don't agree. police should use discretion when deciding whether to make an arrest or write a ticket, and prosecutors should use discretion when deciding which cases to prosecute. we don't need to aggressively seek penalties for jaywalkers. but the crime statistics should represent, as accurately as possible, the actual amount of crime that occurs. otherwise, what is the point?
      - joe_the_user 5y ago
        but the crime statistics should represent, as accurately as possible, the actual amount of crime that occurs.otherwise, what is the point? Crime statistics are somewhat arbitrary and pointless. A large amount of things considered crimes, including things that are sometimes prosecuted, are "in the eye of the beholder". A significant portion of prosecutions involve interpersonal conflicts that slowly escalated. It's very to say when the threshold of crime starts given that American laws are quite flexible. The crime of "riot" is a group of people wandering around in a fashion that makes other people feel unsafe. Disorderly conduct includes being at a place of business without intending to make a purpose. People sometimes good to jail for such. But given you also have, in this fine nation, a population of people ready to scream and call the cops about just about anything, if you record every single thing that these people report, you'll have a certified stream of garbage. The thing is, while crime statistics are indeed somewhat arbitrary, they are sort of intended to be "how unsafe does the average person actually feel" which is different than "how unsafe does the occasional angry wingnut feel?" Moreover, this nation counts among it's citizen
stevenicr 5y ago
I have learned that the crime maps I've seen mostly in my city are nothing compared to what is really going on. For a while some years back one of the newspapers had a tool that showed police calls (there are many more calls than actual prosecuted crimes) - now that was much more realistic as to what's really going on - but it's still not the complete picture. (I don't think that tool is available any longer) Once the citizens run into enough situations where calling the cops results in zero things happening - many decide to stop calling the cops.. yet the crimes are continuing, so less are being reported... and often times the reported crimes that show up on main map are lesser charges than what the witnesses felt or whatever. Anyhow I figure it's good for property values and tourism and all that. I have seen several situations in which cops did not make reports, would not further investigate things )even some some physical evidence in front of us and eye witnesses providing more details) I have witnessed cops on multiple occasions try to talk stores out of pressing charges for 'petty' crimes.. Hey they have good reason sometimes I know - but this must be happening many times every day - so crime maps in general I take with a grain of salt knowing there are more that are not being shown for sure.

joe_the_user 5y ago

In most places, crimes are reported to the city by average people but then investigated to determine if anything actually occurred. As far as I know, Citizen lets people reports things with no filtering at all. So by all means, use an anti-government stance to trust a stream of completely unverified claims. My local paper does the service of publishing 911/police reports. Some would make it to a crime map but a lot of this merits a shrug. Example: "A caller from Rollins View Drive, near Bear Springs Road, reported a heated verbal altercation with a neighbor that ended when they spat in the caller’s face." - avoid heated arguments with neighbor. The only way this realistically gets into a crime report is if a cop/DA really doesn't like the spitter, etc. Overall: Of course, police reports aren't fully accurate but the reports of "Citizen", being completely unfiltered, allow wingnuts and busybodies put out their narrative in an unfettered fashion. https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-police-blotter-caller-says-man-was-following-woman-asking-for-sexual-favors/ https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-police-blotter-c...

leetcrew 5y ago
police are also known to intentionally downgrade or even discourage crime reports to improve statistics. this can either be overt ("do you really want to file a report for that?) or the result of no one giving a fuck the last time you bothered to report a crime. I'm sure there are a lot of misunderstandings or flat-out fabrications that make it onto citizen. I'm also quite certain there are a lot of crimes that are observed but don't get officially documented. maybe this is a wild thing to say, but I'm actually not 100% sure who I trust less between official police records and random community members.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Police is meant to use reasonable discresion, or our crime statistics will drown in jaywalking and antisocial behaviour
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    I don't agree. police should use discretion when deciding whether to make an arrest or write a ticket, and prosecutors should use discretion when deciding which cases to prosecute. we don't need to aggressively seek penalties for jaywalkers. but the crime statistics should represent, as accurately as possible, the actual amount of crime that occurs. otherwise, what is the point?
    - joe_the_user 5y ago
      but the crime statistics should represent, as accurately as possible, the actual amount of crime that occurs.otherwise, what is the point? Crime statistics are somewhat arbitrary and pointless. A large amount of things considered crimes, including things that are sometimes prosecuted, are "in the eye of the beholder". A significant portion of prosecutions involve interpersonal conflicts that slowly escalated. It's very to say when the threshold of crime starts given that American laws are quite flexible. The crime of "riot" is a group of people wandering around in a fashion that makes other people feel unsafe. Disorderly conduct includes being at a place of business without intending to make a purpose. People sometimes good to jail for such. But given you also have, in this fine nation, a population of people ready to scream and call the cops about just about anything, if you record every single thing that these people report, you'll have a certified stream of garbage. The thing is, while crime statistics are indeed somewhat arbitrary, they are sort of intended to be "how unsafe does the average person actually feel" which is different than "how unsafe does the occasional angry wingnut feel?" Moreover, this nation counts among it's citizen

stevenicr 5y ago

I have learned that the crime maps I've seen mostly in my city are nothing compared to what is really going on. For a while some years back one of the newspapers had a tool that showed police calls (there are many more calls than actual prosecuted crimes) - now that was much more realistic as to what's really going on - but it's still not the complete picture. (I don't think that tool is available any longer) Once the citizens run into enough situations where calling the cops results in zero things happening - many decide to stop calling the cops.. yet the crimes are continuing, so less are being reported... and often times the reported crimes that show up on main map are lesser charges than what the witnesses felt or whatever. Anyhow I figure it's good for property values and tourism and all that. I have seen several situations in which cops did not make reports, would not further investigate things )even some some physical evidence in front of us and eye witnesses providing more details) I have witnessed cops on multiple occasions try to talk stores out of pressing charges for 'petty' crimes.. Hey they have good reason sometimes I know - but this must be happening many times every day - so crime maps in general I take with a grain of salt knowing there are more that are not being shown for sure.