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Is your second paragraph really true? These exact worlds are the reasons many have upgraded their ssd, the PS5 will only let you start new games from they built

Is your second paragraph really true? These exact worlds are the reasons many have upgraded their ssd, the PS5 will only let you start new games from they built in fast hard drive for example.

wincy 5y ago
The PS5s operating system and even how they package game files had to be developed from the ground up to realize these gains. There’s a good technical talk about it from one of Sony’s engineers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg
- emkoemko 5y ago
  so Sony made their own OS for PS5? they are not using FreeBSD anymore?
  - wtallis 5y ago
    They might still be using BSD stuff, but they developed new IO and compression offload functionality that doesn't match any off the shelf capabilities I'm aware of.
    - touisteur 5y ago
      Might be close to spdk + compress accelerators?
    - MonaroVXR 5y ago
      But the load times are still slower, don't have any sources. But that's the general information that in seeing.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  You can get most of the gains just by changing how your game is coded, in a way that will perform very badly if installed on a hard drive. The extra compression and better DMA are useful but not necessary. And I'm not sure what you mean about packaging. The change there is mostly just undoing optimization for slow drives.
wtallis 5y ago
The PS5 and Xbox Series X were designed to offer high-performance SSDs as the least common denominator that game developers could rely on, so that game devs could start doing things that aren't possible if you still have to allow for the possibility of running off a hard drive. That's still largely forward-looking; most games currently available still aren't designed to do that much IO—but the consoles will treat all new games as if they really rely on that expectation of high performance IO, and that means running them only from the NVMe storage.
topspin 5y ago
"Is your second paragraph really true?" Partially, on a PC. The difference, on a PC, between a high end NVMe SSD and a SATA SSD is minimal for most use cases; small enough that an average user won't perceive much difference. The workloads in question (booting, loading a program, compiling code, etc.) involve a lot of operations that aren't bound by IO performance (network exchanges, decompressing textures, etc.) and haven't been optimized to maximize the benefit of high performance storage so the throughput and IOPS difference of the storage device don't entirely dominate.

Is your second paragraph really true? These exact worlds are the reasons many have upgraded their ssd, the PS5 will only let you start new games from they built in fast hard drive for example.

wincy 5y ago

The PS5s operating system and even how they package game files had to be developed from the ground up to realize these gains. There’s a good technical talk about it from one of Sony’s engineers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg

emkoemko 5y ago
so Sony made their own OS for PS5? they are not using FreeBSD anymore?
- wtallis 5y ago
  They might still be using BSD stuff, but they developed new IO and compression offload functionality that doesn't match any off the shelf capabilities I'm aware of.
  - touisteur 5y ago
    Might be close to spdk + compress accelerators?
  - MonaroVXR 5y ago
    But the load times are still slower, don't have any sources. But that's the general information that in seeing.
Dylan16807 5y ago
You can get most of the gains just by changing how your game is coded, in a way that will perform very badly if installed on a hard drive. The extra compression and better DMA are useful but not necessary. And I'm not sure what you mean about packaging. The change there is mostly just undoing optimization for slow drives.

wtallis 5y ago

The PS5 and Xbox Series X were designed to offer high-performance SSDs as the least common denominator that game developers could rely on, so that game devs could start doing things that aren't possible if you still have to allow for the possibility of running off a hard drive. That's still largely forward-looking; most games currently available still aren't designed to do that much IO—but the consoles will treat all new games as if they really rely on that expectation of high performance IO, and that means running them only from the NVMe storage.

topspin 5y ago

"Is your second paragraph really true?" Partially, on a PC. The difference, on a PC, between a high end NVMe SSD and a SATA SSD is minimal for most use cases; small enough that an average user won't perceive much difference. The workloads in question (booting, loading a program, compiling code, etc.) involve a lot of operations that aren't bound by IO performance (network exchanges, decompressing textures, etc.) and haven't been optimized to maximize the benefit of high performance storage so the throughput and IOPS difference of the storage device don't entirely dominate.