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Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances
- moonbug 5y agoBased on this, expect US hospital prices for that service to go up.
- joana035 5y agoIt should not be charged at all IMHO. And it should be a right of the parents to hold their newborn in the moment they enter this world.
- e1g 5y agoOP was being sarcastic. “Skin-to-skin” contact with mum is the very first thing they do after child birth, and continue recommending for the entire stay.
- tsjq 5y agothere's a lot of stories / examples about this an item in the hospital bills .
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- e1g 5y agoYou might be thinking of one story that went viral a few years ago, and was amplified by the media. It was successful at generating outrage and so became popular, but it was not correct.
- nicoburns 5y agoIt would only be one of many ridiculous charges in the US medical system. I personally think it's pretty outrageous that one has to pay for medical care while giving birth at all.
- jaywalk 5y agoSo the doctors and nurses involved should just deliver babies for free? Does the free care apply only to standard births, and then they get paid if there are complications? Or is anything involving the delivery plus anything arising from it provided for free?
- wizzwizz4 5y agoThe central bank prints money (partially offset by tax). Some of that money could go to basic medical care like this, as it does in most other countries.
- jaywalk 5y agoWe're currently seeing exactly what happens when the central bank money printer goes into overdrive, which is rising inflation. Maybe we shouldn't be encouraging that.
- nicoburns 5y agoTaxation funded healthcare seems to work pretty well. It allows you to avoid the situation where individuals pay significantly more due to bad luck with their health. Plus you get to cut out the insurance companies' cut completely.
- Tabular-Iceberg 5y agoSome of the countries that implement universal healthcare could actually use some increased inflation. So it doesn't seem like a real concern in practice.
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- baliex 5y agoIYHO?! It's patently absurd to expect anything less Edit: I'm agreeing with you but it seems absurd that it should have to be opinion!
- awestroke 5y agoDo you have to pay to hold your newborn in the US? Land of the free indeed
- wyager 5y agoMedical is probably the single most regulated industry in the US. The US landed at the worst possible system where the government mostly only pays for medical for old people (where the returns on expenditures are very low), but simultaneously interferes a lot with hospitals and insurance in ways that make the process very punishing for everyone. You can get much better service for way less money if you avoid the red tape and do a home birth.
- aidos 5y agoWe’ve had 2 home births now. And the 1st birth was nearly a homebirth too. They’ve all gone well for us, so I recommend them from that point of view, but on the other hand, I don’t recommend them because I’d hate to have any hand in a situation that went wrong for someone else. Our last we actually delivered on our own because the midwifes didn’t get to us in time.
- choeger 5y agoWhile home birth is certainly possible and apparently can be a very nice experience, I strongly suggest going into a hospital for birth (you should be able to choose a hospital of your liking after talking to the nurses/doctors/midwifes working there). Birth is safe in most cases, but complications do happen. While the probability is low, the possible damage is extreme. Please consider the availability of experienced medical professionals as a safety net for mother and child! I witnessed an "emergency" C-section after 18hours of labor without any prior indications and was extremely happy that professionals were literally in the next room when this became necessary.
- jmkd 5y agoAs a counterpoint, home births are in general very safe if recommended prerequisites have been met. Typically: 1) low-risk pregnancy 2) within X minutes of suitable hospital 3) higher level of monitoring in late pregnancy and perhaps two midwives at birth Birth - a natural process - has been commercially medicalised, especially in Brasil (C-section rate >60%) and the US (>30%). If giving birth at home was normalised, we'd see a huge growth in natural birth and an increased availability for medical staff to support in emergencies if required. But the rates of emergencies would actually decline too.
- LibertyBeta 5y agoWho charges? We just had our second and they didn't charge at all. Gave the nurses/midwives a chance to make more ready..... And this was at Major CT Hospital.
- sodality2 5y agoThe hospital may charge for this due to someone needing to stay and monitor you and the baby while you hold them. Ridiculous charge, certainly very rare, but that is typically the justification given
- isolli 5y agoYou're joking, but my wife gave birth to our first-born in the US, and she had to wait several hours until she could hold her baby because... the transportation team (whose job was to roll her bed to the elevator) was unavailable due to a change-of-shift.
- jeduehr 5y agoI will say this is something we've known for a while: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27885658/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27885658/
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoYes, and it’s standard practice in hospitals. Additionally, our doctor prescribed a certain quota of skin-to-skin contact daily for the first several weeks after birth.
- drknownuffin 5y agoSkin-to-skin is standard. Skin-to-skin for unstable neonates is not, which is the debate in the medical field and the question that the study sought to answer.
- mhb 5y agoThis is not what the study addressed - the study is about contact with premature babies which is typically withheld until they are stable. The outcomes are better if the skin-to-skin contact is initiated before they are stable.
- jonathanlydall 5y agoInteresting. Our baby arrived 10 weeks premature and although it wasn't immediately after birth (as I'll explain why below), the hospital strongly encouraged the kangaroo care as mentioned in the article, which mom did daily until we could take our baby home. In a week it will be a full year since birth and the baby is in no way behind developmentally compared to other 10 month olds (when adjusting age due to prematurity). So although anecdotal, I can believe this can be a very helpful practice. Due to arriving mid-pandemic and because neither of us had COVID tests prior to the unexpectedly premature birth, we weren't allowed to visit the baby in the NICU until our tests came back negative, which was about 30 hours later. I wasn't even allowed to be with mom during delivery, but the doctor did allow me to see the baby for a couple of minutes from a distance and under the proviso that I touched nothing in the NICU (including things like walls, windows, doors, handles, etc). Anyway, somewhat superfluous information at the end there, but it was quite an experience and I'm just happy everything turned out fine.
- bredren 5y agoI’m so glad to hear your 10 month old has been making out well. My wife and I are weeks away from our first. While very lucky—our close friends and family have not had serious encounters with covid, We’ve been most affected by regulations that have interrupted what would have been normal parts of a couple’s first pregnancy. I’m sorry to hear you were not allowed to be with the mom during delivery. And that you were delayed in visiting the nicu by those tests. That must have been very difficult. I remember being told I wouldn’t be able to be there with my wife for the first ultrasound. I attended via FaceTime. I was a little more accepting of the circumstances at the 28 week, but still not happy about it. One of the bigger bummers has been having no I’m person social interaction with other new parents approaching the same life stage. It’s just not the same over zoom and it feels like a pretty big miss. Always trying to keep these things in perspective. As of now I’ll be there for the birth, and really just want a good outcome after all.
- jonathanlydall 5y agoCongratulations and I'm glad to hear that things seem to be good as could be hoped for considering the pandemic. With everything else that happened I kind of forgot about not being allowed to join for check ups and ultrasounds, it definitely sucked. Fortunately they made an exception on the day of the birth (where we made an appointment only because my wife was feeling uncomfortable), otherwise I probably wouldn't have been with my wife at all before she was rushed off to theatre. Good luck and enjoy.
- dools 5y agoLots to be learned about the microbiome, and how vaginal birth, breastfeeding and skin contact feeds that. The trend towards caesarian births and formula feeding countervenes this trend in health research.
- ed25519FUUU 5y agoEverything about birth is incredible. For example it’s extremely common to defecate while giving birth. Oh no lots of germs and bad for baby right? Actually the exposure helps jumpstart the infants gut biome. And in the 1930s they were trying to figure out why there’s a type of sugar in breast milk which the infant can’t digest. Why the weird evolutionary waste? It turns out these oligosaccharides are there to feed not the baby but the good bacteria in the gut. The incredible and amazing mother anatomy. Amazing in so many levels. https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-018-00007-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-018-00007-1
- reacharavindh 5y agoInteresting to read this here. When my son was born (naturally, normal weight, fully healthy, and around expected due date), the midwife in Denmark had educated us about the Danish way of handling the birth - as soon as the baby comes out, they literally put the baby on mom’s chest, and leave us(parents, and baby) alone in the room for about an hour. Nothing needs to be done other than the baby being in care of it’s parents! They believed it helps the baby form a natural bond, but also acclimate to the outside world better than being whisked away and cleaned. It was such a lovely experience. One of the many things I am thankful to Denmark for. Several things that I was surprised to learn while going through this in DK. 1. Childbirth is handled by midwives (Jordemothers) instead of doctors. Doctors are brought only when medication or any treatment is necessary. 2. Child birth is considered a natural process and never treated/thought of as a sickness or medical condition. This is reflected in the whole process. 3. The social healthcare system works great. It changed my perspective even more. Not having to think about hospital bills or insurance leaves us parents to enjoy the arrival of our little one. 4. If everyone in the country, regardless of their current financial condition gets such an experience for their childbirth, I will gladly pay my taxes, and never complain. Healthcare should not be a business imho.
- kazen44 5y agousing midwives is quite common in most European countries. in some countries people usually bear there children at home instead of in the hospital as well.
- reacharavindh 5y agoYes, this way of care was new to me as I have only lived in India and the USA prior to moving to Denmark. It simply makes sense to have midwives be the specialized practitioners for this normal natural human care.
- snikeris 5y agoMy son would probably be dead if we didn't give birth in a hospital. The cord was wrapped around his neck three times and he wasn't breathing when he came out. A small team of doctors (angels) came in and saved his life. An hour or so later, they had to do it again. It was a short part of their work day, but made all the difference for us.
- neilpmas 5y agoI'm sceptical of single study medical research and especially that which involves the crazily political world of birth. It might be better to wait until the Cochrane collaboration does a meta analysis on multiple studies before anyone changes what they are currently doing.
- tediousdemise 5y agoCrazily political indeed. Every SUV-driving MLM Starbucks mommy with 5 homeschooled children will rally against anything science says about safe medical practices, including (but not limited) to childbirth. Science doesn’t care about your opinions, Karen.
- drknownuffin 5y agoSkin-to-skin for children has been studied for a few decades, and the consensus is strongly in its favor, after a pile of studies have all pointed in the same direction. This study isn't "skin to skin care is good." This study was aimed to answer the question, as contextualized, "We have established that skin-to-skin care for healthy children is good (pile of studies); for unhealthy children that have been stabilized is good (pile of studies), but is it good for kids that are still unstable? (controversy)" "I'm skeptical of a single study" is only a valid criticism if you're familiar with the body of scientific literature. Otherwise, what you're actually saying is, "I'm skeptical of results that pop magazines and press releases have only surfaced to my attention once" - which is a shoddy mechanism for curating your knowledge.
- irremediable 5y agoYour response is great. Thanks for sharing information about the literature and way more context. > Otherwise, what you're actually saying is, "I'm skeptical of results that pop magazines and press releases have only surfaced to my attention once" - which is a shoddy mechanism for curating your knowledge. At the risk of nitpicking, this seems like a good principle to follow? Like, assuming skeptical means "I won't instantly buy into this being as great as the pop magazine claims" rather than "I will strongly presuppose that this is untrue because it was in a pop magazine".
- pella 5y agoimho: correction of the side effects of "evidence-based medicine" related-satire: "Satirical paper puts evidence-based medicine in the spotlight" "A spoof paper about mothers kissing their children’s ‘boo-boos’ draws attention on social media." https://www.nature.com/news/satirical-paper-puts-evidence-based-medicine-in-the-spotlight-1.19133 https://www.nature.com/news/satirical-paper-puts-evidence-ba... "The paper’s underlying message is in line with the journal’s philosophy, says Miles, who is also senior vice-president of the European Society for Person Centered Healthcare in London and Madrid. In medicine, he notes, scientific research is only one type of knowledge, which must sit alongside other forms, such as professional medical experience, and not above them. “Over-reliance on science is a very dangerous thing,” Miles says. Next month, the journal will publish another article unpacking the lessons contained in the satirical paper, he adds."
- philliphaydon 5y agoHome birth, natural, c-sect, whatever works for you to have a happy healthy baby. We had c-sect under GA, as my wife was scared of birth and c-sect, so we opted for GA. So there wasn’t even an option for skin to skin, or me to even be in the room during the procedure. But our daughter came out happy and healthy. Wouldn’t change a thing.
- williesleg 5y agoWhere's Michael Jackson and Jimmy Kimmel?
- barrenko 5y agoNewborns can die from lack of food, water or touch.
- philliphaydon 5y agoHuh, you should never give a newborn water…
- the_svd_doctor 5y agoYou’re not supposed to give water to a newborn. Maternal milk has plenty of it already.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoIt’s not unsurprising reading about western doctor’s historical skepticism of this practice. Reading about the history of child birth in the U.S. over the last century is messed up. No wonder we have such high mortality rates still. I remember having to change hospitals in Boston because they were proud of the fact that 50% of the births were c-sections…
- locusofself 5y agoNot getting skin-to-skin contact with our daughter (and only child we will have) for several days because of very minor complications is something we really resent.
- newobj 5y agoIs this news? This was the crunchy stuff we did when my son was born ~13 years ago. It seemed like crunchy 101 then, shrug.
- OJFord 5y agoWas your son born 'unstable'?
- alephnan 5y agoReminded me of the Behavioral Despair experiment on the psychology of hope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_despair_test https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_despair_test
- mberning 5y agoThere is a lot of “woo woo” crap in the child birth industry. All the way from hardcore “all natural” proponents to traditional “hospital birth no matter what” people. Unfortunately this causes a lot of anxiety and second guessing on the part of new parents. I really didn’t appreciate the quasi-relgious or cult-like guidance we received on breast feeding our son, only to have him lose 15% of his body weight and not gain it back until we supplemented with formula.
- captainredbeard 5y agoSounds like poor pediatric oversight FWIW.
- alexmr 5y agoWe had a preemie baby at 26 weeks in December and feel fortunate our hospital (UCSF) practiced this recommendation. I was surprised they could do kangaroo care that fast (was a few hours after birth), but we did it then and everyday our daughter was in the ICN for 4 months. I'm convinced it made a difference and am sad when I hear about parents who can't do this. I hope this research helps this become more standard practice.
- MarketingJason 5y agoI wish we could have experienced this. Our OBGYN didn't catch (after we insisted) that the baby was breach. After 2 hours of labor we were rushed to an emergency c-section. I'm thankful that my wife did get a little skin-to-skin but it was not immediate and it was for maybe 5 minutes before they were seperated. I think we got to see our baby about an hour later. The whole experience during and after was horrible but I'm not sure if we or the hospital could have handled it better other than if we had insisted more strongly that the position felt wrong weeks before delivery.
- tenfourwookie 5y agoI received the opposite care. Was delivered by C-section, no contact with anyone while in incubation for several weeks. My mother would often tell the story of how she was unable to touch me for weeks after my birth. 45 years on and I haven’t a single bond, not with family, not with friends, not even with animals. Like a ghost floating through the world with no attachments and seemingly no compelling interest in them. Active avoidance is on point. But don't be sad for me. It's just the way I developed. And the lack of bonding, skin-to-skin contact with my mother is one possible reason. They’ve tried to make a number of diagnoses fit, from autism to Schizoid Personality Disorder, Bipolar to Asperger's. Nothing. Nothing fits. There's nothing wrong with me except that I don't bond, at all. One of the more disturbing experiences was watching what happened to chimpanzees when their mothers were taken away from them after birth (or were denied bonding entirely). They rock back and forth with anxiety; they grapple for the nearest comfy thing; more rocking. It was like watching myself. I'm typing this 45 years later holding a pillow for comfort. You'll rarely see me seated without one. I rock all the time. The pillow, the rocking. They fill a hole. It's protective somehow. I'm sure a shrink would say it reminds me of the womb that was stolen from me. And I know I'll live the rest of my life like this, without bond, alone, and not really sad because of it, just totally missing what compels others towards their own kind, to bond. So, yeah, more skin-to-skin sooner. No more lost people like me. Again: not sad about it, but life without others (and very much not wanting them) can be a severe challenge. You have only yourself.
- captainredbeard 5y agoSounds like emotional avoidance; check out DBT, it is an effective treatment and might improve your suffering even if it doesn’t “fix” it. God Bless, friend.