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This is a good and much more balanced/nuanced outlook. However (in my hypothetical scenario which was meant to challenge the utility of blanket statements of s
by lloydjones 5y ago
This is a good and much more balanced/nuanced outlook.
However (in my hypothetical scenario which was meant to challenge the utility of blanket statements of support), a message of support does effectively act as a counterweight to an accusation, and unless one possesses all of the facts it may have the effect of laundering the reputation of somebody who deserves criticism (though I’d argue that in most instances, cancellation is very very over the top as a penalty).
- 1123581321 5y agoI think that a culture of lovingly challenging our friends is part of the solution to that problem of that counterweighting. I should be the first to uncover the sins, if you will, of my friend, and urge repentance and restitution, temporarily withholding approval to achieve that end, and involving more people in that knowledge to the degree necessary with public shaming being a last resort. (In this example, the problem is not one requiring legal intervention.) Sadly, the idea that a friend can be a loyal one, while insisting on good behavior, seems alien today.
- lloydjones 5y agoThis is very good. I definitely endorse this approach (and largely agree with your final sentence).
- kodah 5y ago> I think that a culture of lovingly challenging our friends is part of the solution to that problem of that counterweighting. I should be the first to uncover the sins, if you will, of my friend, and urge repentance and restitution, temporarily withholding approval to achieve that end, and involving more people in that knowledge to the degree necessary with public shaming being a last resort. (In this example, the problem is not one requiring legal intervention.) This sounds very Catholic
- 1123581321 5y agoYep. :) I tried to generalize the philosophy but apparently didn’t cover my tracks well enough. I’d like to think that the principles would work for anyone.
- kodah 5y agoThey definitely don't. These things are easily manipulated and abused. Leaving the church was one of the best things I ever did, but now the moralistic tone makes sense. Thanks for your honesty.
- 1123581321 5y agoSorry to hear. I really tried to make clear that the whole point is to fight abuse from within as hard as possible, for those in any particular group.
- kodah 5y agoRighteousness generally lends us to believing those things. I think my memories of it were that it was more harmful than good, though there was surely some benefit.
- 1123581321 5y agoI think I know what you mean by the words righteous and moralistic. I’d definitely say I’m optimistic about these ideas, and obviously pessimistic about how rare they’re applied in the wild as I said a few comments ago. The criticism you’ve given me is exactly the kind of challenge and accountability I’m asking for, though, even though we aren’t in the same group aside from HN, so thank you!