6 ms·

Or! We could go one step further, and change the connector to make sure that people use them correctly. Wouldn't that be clever!?

jquery 5y ago
Didn’t Europe ban this?
- mamurphy 5y ago
  jquery was downvoted but I recall articles like this (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-european-commission-common-charger-lightning-cable-port https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-europea...) with the EU trying to ban any "non-standard" connector. Maybe non-standard connectors are actually a feature, not a bug, because everything having the same connector but not the same functionality will lead to confusion as described above.
  - 8note 5y ago
    I don't think it was ever true that the connectors on the two devices determine whether they're compatible. You can find all sorts of different connectors on a cable to connect two devices together, but you still only knew that devices are/are not compatible by trying to plug them in At least with the current setup, you are unlikely to burn out the devices by trying a cable.
Klinky 5y ago
People already incorrectly buy USB A when they should have bought USB C or visa versa. Changing the physical form-factor doesn't solve this problem. "I thought I needed a USB cable"? Also it's a huge waste if say an HDMI 2.1 cable cannot be used on an HDMI 2.0/1.4 device. People would complain about that too.
- wearywanderer 5y ago
  > People already incorrectly buy USB A when they should have bought USB C or visa versa. Changing the physical form-factor doesn't solve this problem. At least the nature of the problem is immediately apparent to such people the moment they attempt to plug the cable in. If the cable won't fit, they know there is nothing wrong with their computer; they didn't misconfigure anything or click the wrong button. The problem is unambiguous. Some USB-C cables not working with some USB-C sockets leaves users feeling gaslit.
  - 8note 5y ago
    If at first the cable doesn't fit, apply more force.
  - Klinky 5y ago
    Except people have damaged ports forcing incorrect form factors. Also we've had tons of other standards where cables vary with performance. HDMI, DisplayPort, IDE, USB1/2/3. You'll get people complaining about the cable not working with their new device, and then people complaining it didn't work with their old device. Eventually USB-C will be so capable and ubiquitous, this will be a non-factor. I don't miss the days of trying to track down the right barrel connector, micro-HDMI cable or proprietary and fragile network dongle adapter. Those weren't easier days.
    - wearywanderer 5y ago
      I would love to see somebody attempt to damage a micro-USB or USB-C port by forcing a USB-A plug into it. Not going to happen, sorry. They may as well try to force a NEMA-5 plug into a VGA port. It's nonsensical. At a certain point on the usability continuum, user error becomes so severe that only dementia can explain it. But USB-C incompatibilities are so far from that point that arguing otherwise seems like bad faith. These USB-C incompatibilities can bite technically inclined people with sound, sober and healthy minds.
      - Klinky 5y ago
        What is your suggested solution? Every potential configuration USB-C can offer needs its own physically different cable? We're going to need a dozen different form factors now. How do you do that at scale economically? How does it help when someone inevitably buys the USB-C cable with shape y when they need USB-C cable with shape x? It physically doesn't fit, great, but they still have the wrong cable and their device still doesn't work, not even in a degraded fashion. They still have to take it back to the store. Typically these issues bite people who bought cheap junky cables that weren't USB-IF certified off Amazon by sorting for lowest price. If it's not working, check that your cable is certified for what your intended use case is. This applies to everything, not just USB-C.
samatman 5y ago
I don't actually want this. I would rather have the problems that come with incompatible cables than the problems which come with incompatible ports. In particular, if my Thunderbolt ports didn't support bog-standard USB, that would suck. I would need special ports which weren't as powerful, or even more dongles, or both. As it stands, things are.. fine, actually. I have one TB cable that works on everything, and a small handful of USB-C cables which work on most things. and a USB-C-or-Thunderbolt-and-I-don't-know-or-care to DisplayPort which stays plugged into my monitor. and a USB-C-or-Thunderbolt-etc to microHDMI for my camera.
8note 5y ago
I think that doesn't make a lot of sense. You'd need a cross product of different cable shapes for all the different available features, since the cable could support any number of them. On top of that, the connector has mechanical constraints to handle, and some of these connector shapes will be suboptimal and undertested
IgorPartola 5y ago
Better: add a color band to the connector. One line for low power, two for medium, three for high.
- Klinky 5y ago
  The problem is you have: Power: 18W, 30W, 45W, 60W, 100W, 240W Data: No Data, 480Mbps, 5Gbps, 10Gbps, 20Gbps, 40Gbps You also have a potential variety of modes that could influence your ability to achieve those speeds with certain devices.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    That sounds like two markings, not too hard. Also there are no power ratings below 60W, and I don't think "no data" is a valid cable.
    - Klinky 5y ago
      USB-PD supports 5, 9, 15 or 20v at between 0 - 5 amps. Higher power typically needs a thicker gauge wire. There are definitely "charge-only" cables being marketed. Two markings with each having multiple variations. You will have a dozen plus combinations, that will only get more complex.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > USB-PD supports 5, 9, 15 or 20v at between 0 - 5 amps. Higher power typically needs a thicker gauge wire. Every voltage below 20 maxes out at 3 amps. As far as cables go, 60 is the minimum watts supported. > There are definitely "charge-only" cables being marketed. Are they valid though? > Two markings with each having multiple variations. You will have a dozen plus combinations, that will only get more complex. I don't really care how many combos there are. I won't need most of them. Most of the time I just want speed or power, sometimes I want both, and it's always a minimum requirement rather than anything specific.
        5y ago

jquery 5y ago

Didn’t Europe ban this?

mamurphy 5y ago
jquery was downvoted but I recall articles like this (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-european-commission-common-charger-lightning-cable-port https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-europea...) with the EU trying to ban any "non-standard" connector. Maybe non-standard connectors are actually a feature, not a bug, because everything having the same connector but not the same functionality will lead to confusion as described above.
- 8note 5y ago
  I don't think it was ever true that the connectors on the two devices determine whether they're compatible. You can find all sorts of different connectors on a cable to connect two devices together, but you still only knew that devices are/are not compatible by trying to plug them in At least with the current setup, you are unlikely to burn out the devices by trying a cable.

Klinky 5y ago

People already incorrectly buy USB A when they should have bought USB C or visa versa. Changing the physical form-factor doesn't solve this problem. "I thought I needed a USB cable"? Also it's a huge waste if say an HDMI 2.1 cable cannot be used on an HDMI 2.0/1.4 device. People would complain about that too.

wearywanderer 5y ago
> People already incorrectly buy USB A when they should have bought USB C or visa versa. Changing the physical form-factor doesn't solve this problem. At least the nature of the problem is immediately apparent to such people the moment they attempt to plug the cable in. If the cable won't fit, they know there is nothing wrong with their computer; they didn't misconfigure anything or click the wrong button. The problem is unambiguous. Some USB-C cables not working with some USB-C sockets leaves users feeling gaslit.
- 8note 5y ago
  If at first the cable doesn't fit, apply more force.
- Klinky 5y ago
  Except people have damaged ports forcing incorrect form factors. Also we've had tons of other standards where cables vary with performance. HDMI, DisplayPort, IDE, USB1/2/3. You'll get people complaining about the cable not working with their new device, and then people complaining it didn't work with their old device. Eventually USB-C will be so capable and ubiquitous, this will be a non-factor. I don't miss the days of trying to track down the right barrel connector, micro-HDMI cable or proprietary and fragile network dongle adapter. Those weren't easier days.
  - wearywanderer 5y ago
    I would love to see somebody attempt to damage a micro-USB or USB-C port by forcing a USB-A plug into it. Not going to happen, sorry. They may as well try to force a NEMA-5 plug into a VGA port. It's nonsensical. At a certain point on the usability continuum, user error becomes so severe that only dementia can explain it. But USB-C incompatibilities are so far from that point that arguing otherwise seems like bad faith. These USB-C incompatibilities can bite technically inclined people with sound, sober and healthy minds.
    - Klinky 5y ago
      What is your suggested solution? Every potential configuration USB-C can offer needs its own physically different cable? We're going to need a dozen different form factors now. How do you do that at scale economically? How does it help when someone inevitably buys the USB-C cable with shape y when they need USB-C cable with shape x? It physically doesn't fit, great, but they still have the wrong cable and their device still doesn't work, not even in a degraded fashion. They still have to take it back to the store. Typically these issues bite people who bought cheap junky cables that weren't USB-IF certified off Amazon by sorting for lowest price. If it's not working, check that your cable is certified for what your intended use case is. This applies to everything, not just USB-C.

samatman 5y ago

I don't actually want this. I would rather have the problems that come with incompatible cables than the problems which come with incompatible ports. In particular, if my Thunderbolt ports didn't support bog-standard USB, that would suck. I would need special ports which weren't as powerful, or even more dongles, or both. As it stands, things are.. fine, actually. I have one TB cable that works on everything, and a small handful of USB-C cables which work on most things. and a USB-C-or-Thunderbolt-and-I-don't-know-or-care to DisplayPort which stays plugged into my monitor. and a USB-C-or-Thunderbolt-etc to microHDMI for my camera.

8note 5y ago

I think that doesn't make a lot of sense. You'd need a cross product of different cable shapes for all the different available features, since the cable could support any number of them. On top of that, the connector has mechanical constraints to handle, and some of these connector shapes will be suboptimal and undertested

IgorPartola 5y ago

Better: add a color band to the connector. One line for low power, two for medium, three for high.

Klinky 5y ago
The problem is you have: Power: 18W, 30W, 45W, 60W, 100W, 240W Data: No Data, 480Mbps, 5Gbps, 10Gbps, 20Gbps, 40Gbps You also have a potential variety of modes that could influence your ability to achieve those speeds with certain devices.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  That sounds like two markings, not too hard. Also there are no power ratings below 60W, and I don't think "no data" is a valid cable.
  - Klinky 5y ago
    USB-PD supports 5, 9, 15 or 20v at between 0 - 5 amps. Higher power typically needs a thicker gauge wire. There are definitely "charge-only" cables being marketed. Two markings with each having multiple variations. You will have a dozen plus combinations, that will only get more complex.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > USB-PD supports 5, 9, 15 or 20v at between 0 - 5 amps. Higher power typically needs a thicker gauge wire. Every voltage below 20 maxes out at 3 amps. As far as cables go, 60 is the minimum watts supported. > There are definitely "charge-only" cables being marketed. Are they valid though? > Two markings with each having multiple variations. You will have a dozen plus combinations, that will only get more complex. I don't really care how many combos there are. I won't need most of them. Most of the time I just want speed or power, sometimes I want both, and it's always a minimum requirement rather than anything specific.
      - 5y ago