4 ms·

Longevity research had been fun to follow, but I’d caution newcomers to take everything with a grain of salt. The field of longevity influencers has exploded r

Longevity research had been fun to follow, but I’d caution newcomers to take everything with a grain of salt. The field of longevity influencers has exploded recently, with increasingly confident claims extrapolated from preliminary research and hypotheses. Some of the longevity influencers, including some of the people in the list above, have significant financial interests in promoting their theories and methods. This ranges from selling educational materials to speaking engagements and even promoting supplements. As is typical with cutting edge research, the confidence of certain claims tends to be exaggerated when a financial conflict of interest becomes involved. A few years ago the longevity world was all about resveratrol after some promising early research, though later research suggests that resveratrol isn’t quite as miraculous as it was initially promoted. We’re currently going through a similar cycle with NR/NMN supplements like Niagen. There may be some promising developments in this area, but I wouldn’t rush out to spend money on expensive supplements that haven’t been tested at high doses long term in humans just yet. Longevity influencers like to talk about the potential upsides, but they rarely admit the unknown potential downsides.

jostmey 5y ago
You nailed it. I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality, as if aging is a simple biological process that we can flip off with a single switch. If we want to take aging seriously, we need to first appreciate the problem. It reminds me how people used to think there was "the cure" for cancer.
- jerf 5y ago
  Personally, I have a hard time guessing which of "extend the life of the human organism to, let's say, 500 years" or "read out the living brain state of a human being and simulate it in a computer" is going to be easier. With full knowledge of how hard the second may be, if indeed it is possible at all. I wouldn't be surprised there's a few "One Weird Trick to Extend Your Life by Five Years"s yet to be found, but to solve aging I expect to be much harder. It wouldn't surprise me much that the simplest "solution" to aging could end up being the brain simulation thing anyhow, because fixing up the biological organism across hundreds of years is simply that hard. If there are a few of those weird tricks I definitely expect a period of excessive optimism where people conclude we're just another couple of such tricks away from the solution, when instead they are simply the first steps on a very long path.
  - benlivengood 5y ago
    > Personally, I have a hard time guessing which of "extend the life of the human organism to, let's say, 500 years" or "read out the living brain state of a human being and simulate it in a computer" is going to be easier. The latter is probably closer. We can already induce extended periods of apoxyia in animals by replacing blood with cold saline without brain damage so a similar procedure should be possible to keep healthy brain tissue intact while scanning it. The necessary fidelity of the simulation is what we don't know yet. Keeping a human being alive for 500 years means knowing how to do roughly the same thing to bodies in order to accomplish the major periodic surgeries necessary to replace failing/injured parts including healing the brain itself, so probably represents a harder technical threshold.
    - scarby2 5y ago
      However brain simulation isn't on a par with life extension. with brain simulation you still die. You're just replaced by something extremely similar to you with all your memories. There's a distinct break in continuity. At that point i can just create clones of my consciousness, the original consciousness does not want to stop existing.
      - messe 5y ago
        It depends on what you consider to be you, and whether continuity of consciousness is important to you personally.
      - benlivengood 5y ago
        > You're just replaced by something extremely similar to you with all your memories. That happens every night I go to sleep and a fair portion of my atoms get swapped out by normal metabolic processes. My neural network changes as I'm unconscious or dream. I don't even remember all my dreams, but wake up with new thoughts/ideas sometimes. We're always some delta from ourselves the previous day. I'm very different from the me of 10 years ago. The jump to a brain simulation may be a large change, but I could also tweak the things that didn't feel quite right or match with what I used to be like.
- RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
  :entropy has entered the chat:
- munchbunny 5y ago
  I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality We've absolutely been here before with vitamins, both the fact that they're simple molecules and part where we over-promise what they can do. (Example: vitamin C mega-dosing)
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality That's a weird statement to make, while in the largest part of the 20th century, most medicinal advances were made using small molecules. Aspirin is a very potent drug that had dozens of actual applications at least, yet remains a very simple molecule.
nradov 5y ago
Recent research hasn't produced any convincing evidence that NR/NMN supplements will extend life. However there may be some other small health benefits for certain people. https://peterattiamd.com/does-nmn-improve-metabolic-health-in-humans/ https://peterattiamd.com/does-nmn-improve-metabolic-health-i...
PaulHoule 5y ago
I think it not interesting news that "substance X extends the life of rats", or "substance Y might extend the life of yeast." Humans are exceptionally long-lived animals that live for about 4x as many heartbeats as other mammals. It is one thing for treatments to give animals some of the resilience to aging we have, it's another to extend the frontier of human lifespan.
- mrwh 5y ago
  Agreed. And the low hanging fruit has already been plucked: improving infant mortality, basic hygiene. My grandparents all lived well into their 80s/are still alive. Realistically speaking, I doubt I'll do much better.
  - vletal 5y ago
    TBH I'd rather die happy around the age of 75 than miserable at 90+ like my grandparents. Not everyone has the luck of being cared of as British Queen and Prince were, yet they seem to die anyway.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      Even if let's say, the average longevity does not change, it would still be a game changer if you could be as healthy in your 80s as in your 70s. Agree that nobody wants to live to 100 while being strapped to a hospital bed the whole time.
subsubzero 5y ago
Agree, I feel like the best way to feel great and age well is not taking thousands of pills, but through classic healthy steps, not really sexy but they have worked well for many: get enough sleep, eat healthy, exercise alot, avoid stress. Looking at long life proponent Ray Kurzweil, he takes one million dollars of vitamins and supplements yearly and looks alot older than his age. He seems to be wearing a wig lately which makes him appear a bit younger but I think his supplement regime is big waste of money.

jostmey 5y ago

You nailed it. I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality, as if aging is a simple biological process that we can flip off with a single switch. If we want to take aging seriously, we need to first appreciate the problem. It reminds me how people used to think there was "the cure" for cancer.

jerf 5y ago
Personally, I have a hard time guessing which of "extend the life of the human organism to, let's say, 500 years" or "read out the living brain state of a human being and simulate it in a computer" is going to be easier. With full knowledge of how hard the second may be, if indeed it is possible at all. I wouldn't be surprised there's a few "One Weird Trick to Extend Your Life by Five Years"s yet to be found, but to solve aging I expect to be much harder. It wouldn't surprise me much that the simplest "solution" to aging could end up being the brain simulation thing anyhow, because fixing up the biological organism across hundreds of years is simply that hard. If there are a few of those weird tricks I definitely expect a period of excessive optimism where people conclude we're just another couple of such tricks away from the solution, when instead they are simply the first steps on a very long path.
- benlivengood 5y ago
  > Personally, I have a hard time guessing which of "extend the life of the human organism to, let's say, 500 years" or "read out the living brain state of a human being and simulate it in a computer" is going to be easier. The latter is probably closer. We can already induce extended periods of apoxyia in animals by replacing blood with cold saline without brain damage so a similar procedure should be possible to keep healthy brain tissue intact while scanning it. The necessary fidelity of the simulation is what we don't know yet. Keeping a human being alive for 500 years means knowing how to do roughly the same thing to bodies in order to accomplish the major periodic surgeries necessary to replace failing/injured parts including healing the brain itself, so probably represents a harder technical threshold.
  - scarby2 5y ago
    However brain simulation isn't on a par with life extension. with brain simulation you still die. You're just replaced by something extremely similar to you with all your memories. There's a distinct break in continuity. At that point i can just create clones of my consciousness, the original consciousness does not want to stop existing.
    - messe 5y ago
      It depends on what you consider to be you, and whether continuity of consciousness is important to you personally.
    - benlivengood 5y ago
      > You're just replaced by something extremely similar to you with all your memories. That happens every night I go to sleep and a fair portion of my atoms get swapped out by normal metabolic processes. My neural network changes as I'm unconscious or dream. I don't even remember all my dreams, but wake up with new thoughts/ideas sometimes. We're always some delta from ourselves the previous day. I'm very different from the me of 10 years ago. The jump to a brain simulation may be a large change, but I could also tweak the things that didn't feel quite right or match with what I used to be like.
RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
:entropy has entered the chat:
munchbunny 5y ago
I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality We've absolutely been here before with vitamins, both the fact that they're simple molecules and part where we over-promise what they can do. (Example: vitamin C mega-dosing)
ekianjo 5y ago
> I find it funny how people believe a simple molecule made from a dozen atoms is somehow the elixir of immortality That's a weird statement to make, while in the largest part of the 20th century, most medicinal advances were made using small molecules. Aspirin is a very potent drug that had dozens of actual applications at least, yet remains a very simple molecule.

nradov 5y ago

Recent research hasn't produced any convincing evidence that NR/NMN supplements will extend life. However there may be some other small health benefits for certain people. https://peterattiamd.com/does-nmn-improve-metabolic-health-in-humans/ https://peterattiamd.com/does-nmn-improve-metabolic-health-i...

PaulHoule 5y ago

I think it not interesting news that "substance X extends the life of rats", or "substance Y might extend the life of yeast." Humans are exceptionally long-lived animals that live for about 4x as many heartbeats as other mammals. It is one thing for treatments to give animals some of the resilience to aging we have, it's another to extend the frontier of human lifespan.

mrwh 5y ago
Agreed. And the low hanging fruit has already been plucked: improving infant mortality, basic hygiene. My grandparents all lived well into their 80s/are still alive. Realistically speaking, I doubt I'll do much better.
- vletal 5y ago
  TBH I'd rather die happy around the age of 75 than miserable at 90+ like my grandparents. Not everyone has the luck of being cared of as British Queen and Prince were, yet they seem to die anyway.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    Even if let's say, the average longevity does not change, it would still be a game changer if you could be as healthy in your 80s as in your 70s. Agree that nobody wants to live to 100 while being strapped to a hospital bed the whole time.

subsubzero 5y ago

Agree, I feel like the best way to feel great and age well is not taking thousands of pills, but through classic healthy steps, not really sexy but they have worked well for many: get enough sleep, eat healthy, exercise alot, avoid stress. Looking at long life proponent Ray Kurzweil, he takes one million dollars of vitamins and supplements yearly and looks alot older than his age. He seems to be wearing a wig lately which makes him appear a bit younger but I think his supplement regime is big waste of money.