7 ms·

I plan to keep wearing my mask on public transit and crowded places forever. I like the anonymity and I'll be protected from influenza and the common cold. It's

I plan to keep wearing my mask on public transit and crowded places forever. I like the anonymity and I'll be protected from influenza and the common cold. It's a small price to pay.

tluyben2 5y ago
I don't know anymore what the latest is (it changes from yourself, others, both, none in the newspapers here), but doesn't the person wearing the mask protect others, not themselves by wearing it?
- Retric 5y ago
  All masks provide some protection for the user from air born droplets produced by coughing and sneezing. N95 masks or the equivalent provide significant protection from catching the disease. Though eye protection is still very important when treating patients with COVID. Also, it’s important to realize that initial viral load makes a significant difference in how sick people get. Simply reducing exposure can therefore reduce how sick someone becomes.
  - akiselev 5y ago
    The jury is out on whether N95's provide any extra protection over a thick bandana or blown plastic surgical masks for the general public, isn't it? The average person cannot be expected to fit an N95 properly.
    - jfkvktnrnr 5y ago
      A totally unfit N95 has way less leakage than a very carefully fit surgical mask. Just try it for yourself, put a N95 on you face and don't even press the metal nose thing, and then see if you can fit a surgical mask better than this unfit N95. This is another meme which needs to die.
      - akiselev 5y ago
        > Just try it for yourself, put a N95 on you face and don't even press the metal nose thing, and then see if you can fit a surgical mask better than this unfit N95. I have, with a proper fit tester. If you use a half mask respirator with cartridges, sure, the rubber seal is better by default. However, most N95 masks I've seen in public are are the cheap rigid masks leaving large gaps all around the circumference, whereas the surgical masks/bandana cling to the skin better.
    - _ph_ 5y ago
      That would be a to-do item for after the pandemic then: make sure that there is sufficient supply with quality N95 masks and training people how to use them, also perhaps: offer several sizes to ensure perfect fit. There is no good reason not to own a small supply of masks going forward.
  - rhino369 5y ago
    >Also, it’s important to realize that initial viral load makes a significant difference in how sick people get. While that was an early hypothesis, I'm not sure that has really been proven. A lot of the early data wasn't really "initial" viral load, but viral load when they presented in the hospital. That's not necessary an indication of initial viral load.
    - Retric 5y ago
      In the end most viruses have similar interactions with the body. The immune system simply takes a while to physically respond which is why initial viral load is important. So, initial viral load is not COVID specific. Also viral load at first detection is a different yet important criteria for EBOLA, COVID, and other diseases. https://www.jci.org/articles/view/83162 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/83162
      - rhino369 5y ago
        It doesn't follow that viral load at infection matters because the immune system takes a while to respond. You have a built in assumption that immune response is exactly the same whether there is 1 (arbitrary unit) virus vs. 50 (arbitrary unit) virus. I'm not sure that is true. I could imagine the body starting a heavy immune response at 100 virus--which would mean the difference between 1 and 50 might have little affect on outcome. Your paper is about viral load at diagnosis--not infection. Diagnosis happens after your immune system has been fighting a while.
        Retric 5y ago
        That study was not supposed to refer to viral load at initial infection, you need to test viral load at exposure in a lab. The 1 vs 50 difference is known to be based in part on the innate immune system not just the adaptive immune system. Most of the time you don’t need to create specific antibodies etc. If only a single virus enters the body it’s likely for you to fight off the infection without noticing though with the downside of failing to develop long term immunity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system The 50 vs 50,000 is a related though less proven idea. Extreme exposure can simply overwhelm the immune system and extreme cases directly result in septic shock, but the middle ground is harder to test.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  Depends on the mask and what exactly you are protecting against. The medical masks are good against droplets and protects others in the case of Covid, FFP2 (N95) masks give good self-protection.
- tartoran 5y ago
  With N95 you filter a whole lot of things out of the air. I’ll consider wearing a mask in special ocasions as well. Another one is in the winter, wearing the mask when the air is cold and gusts of wind blow in your face helps too. Or when on a bike or e-scooter or running through a very polluted area should help somewhat as well
- graeme 5y ago
  No that was a scientifically incorrect meme spread by health authorities (which historically have been anti mask pre pandemic) and people motivated by altruism. Studies are clear though. This one found non-N95 masks filter 20-80% of particles. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774265 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... It defies common sense to say that won’t help the wearer! We haven’t done challenge trials, but the burden of proof is on those saying that a material covering the face and which filters out 20-80% of virus sized particles somehow won’t stop viral infections.
  - splithalf 5y ago
    Even good medical masks didn’t protect Li Wenliang. There was always agreement about well fitted n95 but we’re told, even by your linked article not to use those. Sorry but this seems like politics not science. Obviously if you layer enough masks you can almost get to n95 levels of protection but why not just use an n95 at that point?
    - eloff 5y ago
      The point is not that it gives you perfect protection or even n95 protection. It does give you more protection than maskless. Also the lower the viral load you're exposed to, the longer your body has to prepare. How the disease progresses is dosage dependant. A low enough load is like a natural vaccination. You don't get sick, but you get some immunity. A high enough load and you can get the sickness very severely. It's a gradient, and masks help put you lower on that gradient than otherwise.
      - splithalf 5y ago
        Sure but it’s all about quantifying that accurately so that it can be compared to for example better building ventilation. If, hypothetically, better ventilation had 100x the effect of mask wearing, then focusing attention on masks would be counter productive no? Make no mistake I’m pro mask but mostly for psychological, ethical and economic reasons. I feel their benefits in terms of personal protection are vastly overstated, often in bad faith by those with a desire to impact other people’s behavior albeit with the best of intentions.
- reincarnate0x14 5y ago
  Surgical masks are mostly about protecting the everyone else from the weaer, yes, but do provide a small benefit to the wearer as well as least with virions for influenza and coronaviruses. Depending on what study, rates of transmission reduction were 10-20% for the wearer, which doesn't sound huge but greatly reduces transmission at scale. The filter masks like N95s (which are usable for all kinds of non-medical purposes like working around airborne particles of fiberglass or metal debris or whatever) offer a high degree of protection to the wearer as well.
  - splithalf 5y ago
    Exactly. For personal protection you use n95 or better and know it’s not perfect. If you don’t care about personal protection but want to reduce spread in a community then getting large groups to wear any face covering will help, but not nearly as much as social distancing which renders masks meaningless. For community spread, again not personal safety, it’s best to just stay home altogether. Masks are like pulling out during sex, a very imperfect way to compensate for bad behavior (not social distancing).
- anovikov 5y ago
  Normal or surgical mask, yes. N95 mask protects oneself very well, too.
- kgc 5y ago
  Does it matter that much? Both are good.
  - geoduck14 5y ago
    It really does. There is a non-zero cost to wearing masks. It is important to be able to make the cost-benefit analysis when deciding which mitigation to implement.
    - paulmd 5y ago
      nothing is zero-cost but wearing a mask in public is as near to zero as any practical cost can be. Costco had a sale a few weeks ago, 250 masks for 5 bucks, or you can buy a re-usable one and wear it for months. as far as the "human cost" of wearing a mask... grow up. Asian societies like China/Japan/Korea have been wearing masks forever and they're fine. Now that the consequences of spread are more severe (vs just plain old flu) it's time for this custom to spread more widely. again, the hilarious thing is it's always adults who are so childish about this whole thing. Kids intuitively get it, just like they grasp a lot of the boomer issues that society is burying its head about. It's so ironic that in modern society, the children are adults and the adults are childish.
      - irq11 5y ago
        > as far as the "human cost" of wearing a mask... grow up. Asian societies like China/Japan/Korea have been wearing masks forever and they're fine This is a racist meme that needs to die. You would see some people wearing masks. By no means did everyone wear them. Not even close. The only people claiming that mask adoption was common across asia have never spent significant time there.
woodpanel 5y ago
Another benefit is that masks help if you’re not in „camp good-looking“ or „camp daily toothpaste“. Also, Years ago, when I switched from public transport to car I noticed a significant reduction in being sick / year. So yeah to (voluntary) masks in public Transit
_ph_ 5y ago
It would be great if we could establish, that everyone who has an infect of any kind would wear masks in public. That alone could cut down infections considerably. And of course it is normal behavior in Asia.
- throwaway316943 5y ago
  This makes complete sense. It’s really just like having the courtesy to use a tissue when you blow your nose or cough.
  - godfreyantonell 5y ago
    nice
- giarc 5y ago
  I think that's not quite what we want, however it might be what we have to accept. Ideally, people who are stick will stay home, rather than put on a mask and go out into public. However the current state (pre-pandemic) is 'be sick, go out into public and claim it's just allergies'. So perhaps putting a mask on is a good substitute.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    A lot of people will simply lose their jobs if they don't go in to work, whether they're sick or not. A lot of those jobs are in food service. Wearing masks in extremely crowded public areas going forward is probably a good idea.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    It depends. You are right that if you can work from home, you definitely should, if infected. But we cannot expect people to be quarantined because of a cold, you might have to buy groceries for example. Or travel to a doctor. Or if you have to come to work. In those cases, wear a mask!
  - j7ake 5y ago
    There are simply situations where people are sick but still need to be out in the public. For example, if you are sick but your child still needs to be taken a school event or needs something from the store, you may still need to go out in public.
49531 5y ago
Ditto. Anecdotally winter 2020 was the healthiest I've had in years. It became a personal expectation for me that I would be vaguely sick from November to March which was not the case in 2020.
- icedchai 5y ago
  I rarely get sick, but getting a cold a couple times a year wasn't unusual. I haven't had a cold since mid 2019.
lamontcg 5y ago
Airplanes and airports definitely. Caught too many viruses going on vacation.
yibg 5y ago
Japan (and other Asian countries) have been doing this for a while now. Seems to work for them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pigeonhole123 5y ago
  So they don't have flu epidemics?
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    Let me rephrase: is there any (peer reviewed with a control group) evidence that this has any real effect on e.g. flu?
irq11 5y ago
You will not be protected from influenza and common cold. All prior literature on masks and these viruses have found little/no effect. Moreover: “mask-wearing countries” like Japan, Korea and China have plenty of cold and flu to go around.
- jrnichols 5y ago
  Japan in particular had a record breaking flu season in 2019. Millions of flu cases. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/370/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/370/
vmurthy 5y ago
I'd continue with frequent hand-washing/sanitising to this. I remember reading that Influenza virii spread via touch as well [0]. Plus, it's just good hygiene :) [0]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm#:~:text=These%20droplets%20can%20land%20in%20the%20mouths%20or,their%20own%20mouth%2C%20nose%2C%20or%20possibly%20their%20eyes https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm#:~:text=The....
diveanon 5y ago
This is the way. As a Westerner living in Asia for a while now, masks in public was one of the no-brainers that was very easy to adopt. It's like taking your shoes off in the home, it just makes sense.
rimliu 5y ago
Good for anononimity, may be bot so good at influenza prevention: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

I plan to keep wearing my mask on public transit and crowded places forever. I like the anonymity and I'll be protected from influenza and the common cold. It's a small price to pay.

tluyben2 5y ago

I don't know anymore what the latest is (it changes from yourself, others, both, none in the newspapers here), but doesn't the person wearing the mask protect others, not themselves by wearing it?

Retric 5y ago
All masks provide some protection for the user from air born droplets produced by coughing and sneezing. N95 masks or the equivalent provide significant protection from catching the disease. Though eye protection is still very important when treating patients with COVID. Also, it’s important to realize that initial viral load makes a significant difference in how sick people get. Simply reducing exposure can therefore reduce how sick someone becomes.
- akiselev 5y ago
  The jury is out on whether N95's provide any extra protection over a thick bandana or blown plastic surgical masks for the general public, isn't it? The average person cannot be expected to fit an N95 properly.
  - jfkvktnrnr 5y ago
    A totally unfit N95 has way less leakage than a very carefully fit surgical mask. Just try it for yourself, put a N95 on you face and don't even press the metal nose thing, and then see if you can fit a surgical mask better than this unfit N95. This is another meme which needs to die.
    - akiselev 5y ago
      > Just try it for yourself, put a N95 on you face and don't even press the metal nose thing, and then see if you can fit a surgical mask better than this unfit N95. I have, with a proper fit tester. If you use a half mask respirator with cartridges, sure, the rubber seal is better by default. However, most N95 masks I've seen in public are are the cheap rigid masks leaving large gaps all around the circumference, whereas the surgical masks/bandana cling to the skin better.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    That would be a to-do item for after the pandemic then: make sure that there is sufficient supply with quality N95 masks and training people how to use them, also perhaps: offer several sizes to ensure perfect fit. There is no good reason not to own a small supply of masks going forward.
- rhino369 5y ago
  >Also, it’s important to realize that initial viral load makes a significant difference in how sick people get. While that was an early hypothesis, I'm not sure that has really been proven. A lot of the early data wasn't really "initial" viral load, but viral load when they presented in the hospital. That's not necessary an indication of initial viral load.
  - Retric 5y ago
    In the end most viruses have similar interactions with the body. The immune system simply takes a while to physically respond which is why initial viral load is important. So, initial viral load is not COVID specific. Also viral load at first detection is a different yet important criteria for EBOLA, COVID, and other diseases. https://www.jci.org/articles/view/83162 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/83162
    - rhino369 5y ago
      It doesn't follow that viral load at infection matters because the immune system takes a while to respond. You have a built in assumption that immune response is exactly the same whether there is 1 (arbitrary unit) virus vs. 50 (arbitrary unit) virus. I'm not sure that is true. I could imagine the body starting a heavy immune response at 100 virus--which would mean the difference between 1 and 50 might have little affect on outcome. Your paper is about viral load at diagnosis--not infection. Diagnosis happens after your immune system has been fighting a while.
      - Retric 5y ago
        That study was not supposed to refer to viral load at initial infection, you need to test viral load at exposure in a lab. The 1 vs 50 difference is known to be based in part on the innate immune system not just the adaptive immune system. Most of the time you don’t need to create specific antibodies etc. If only a single virus enters the body it’s likely for you to fight off the infection without noticing though with the downside of failing to develop long term immunity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system The 50 vs 50,000 is a related though less proven idea. Extreme exposure can simply overwhelm the immune system and extreme cases directly result in septic shock, but the middle ground is harder to test.
_ph_ 5y ago
Depends on the mask and what exactly you are protecting against. The medical masks are good against droplets and protects others in the case of Covid, FFP2 (N95) masks give good self-protection.
tartoran 5y ago
With N95 you filter a whole lot of things out of the air. I’ll consider wearing a mask in special ocasions as well. Another one is in the winter, wearing the mask when the air is cold and gusts of wind blow in your face helps too. Or when on a bike or e-scooter or running through a very polluted area should help somewhat as well
graeme 5y ago
No that was a scientifically incorrect meme spread by health authorities (which historically have been anti mask pre pandemic) and people motivated by altruism. Studies are clear though. This one found non-N95 masks filter 20-80% of particles. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774265 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... It defies common sense to say that won’t help the wearer! We haven’t done challenge trials, but the burden of proof is on those saying that a material covering the face and which filters out 20-80% of virus sized particles somehow won’t stop viral infections.
- splithalf 5y ago
  Even good medical masks didn’t protect Li Wenliang. There was always agreement about well fitted n95 but we’re told, even by your linked article not to use those. Sorry but this seems like politics not science. Obviously if you layer enough masks you can almost get to n95 levels of protection but why not just use an n95 at that point?
  - eloff 5y ago
    The point is not that it gives you perfect protection or even n95 protection. It does give you more protection than maskless. Also the lower the viral load you're exposed to, the longer your body has to prepare. How the disease progresses is dosage dependant. A low enough load is like a natural vaccination. You don't get sick, but you get some immunity. A high enough load and you can get the sickness very severely. It's a gradient, and masks help put you lower on that gradient than otherwise.
    - splithalf 5y ago
      Sure but it’s all about quantifying that accurately so that it can be compared to for example better building ventilation. If, hypothetically, better ventilation had 100x the effect of mask wearing, then focusing attention on masks would be counter productive no? Make no mistake I’m pro mask but mostly for psychological, ethical and economic reasons. I feel their benefits in terms of personal protection are vastly overstated, often in bad faith by those with a desire to impact other people’s behavior albeit with the best of intentions.
reincarnate0x14 5y ago
Surgical masks are mostly about protecting the everyone else from the weaer, yes, but do provide a small benefit to the wearer as well as least with virions for influenza and coronaviruses. Depending on what study, rates of transmission reduction were 10-20% for the wearer, which doesn't sound huge but greatly reduces transmission at scale. The filter masks like N95s (which are usable for all kinds of non-medical purposes like working around airborne particles of fiberglass or metal debris or whatever) offer a high degree of protection to the wearer as well.
- splithalf 5y ago
  Exactly. For personal protection you use n95 or better and know it’s not perfect. If you don’t care about personal protection but want to reduce spread in a community then getting large groups to wear any face covering will help, but not nearly as much as social distancing which renders masks meaningless. For community spread, again not personal safety, it’s best to just stay home altogether. Masks are like pulling out during sex, a very imperfect way to compensate for bad behavior (not social distancing).
anovikov 5y ago
Normal or surgical mask, yes. N95 mask protects oneself very well, too.
kgc 5y ago
Does it matter that much? Both are good.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  It really does. There is a non-zero cost to wearing masks. It is important to be able to make the cost-benefit analysis when deciding which mitigation to implement.
  - paulmd 5y ago
    nothing is zero-cost but wearing a mask in public is as near to zero as any practical cost can be. Costco had a sale a few weeks ago, 250 masks for 5 bucks, or you can buy a re-usable one and wear it for months. as far as the "human cost" of wearing a mask... grow up. Asian societies like China/Japan/Korea have been wearing masks forever and they're fine. Now that the consequences of spread are more severe (vs just plain old flu) it's time for this custom to spread more widely. again, the hilarious thing is it's always adults who are so childish about this whole thing. Kids intuitively get it, just like they grasp a lot of the boomer issues that society is burying its head about. It's so ironic that in modern society, the children are adults and the adults are childish.
    - irq11 5y ago
      > as far as the "human cost" of wearing a mask... grow up. Asian societies like China/Japan/Korea have been wearing masks forever and they're fine This is a racist meme that needs to die. You would see some people wearing masks. By no means did everyone wear them. Not even close. The only people claiming that mask adoption was common across asia have never spent significant time there.

woodpanel 5y ago

Another benefit is that masks help if you’re not in „camp good-looking“ or „camp daily toothpaste“. Also, Years ago, when I switched from public transport to car I noticed a significant reduction in being sick / year. So yeah to (voluntary) masks in public Transit

_ph_ 5y ago

It would be great if we could establish, that everyone who has an infect of any kind would wear masks in public. That alone could cut down infections considerably. And of course it is normal behavior in Asia.

throwaway316943 5y ago
This makes complete sense. It’s really just like having the courtesy to use a tissue when you blow your nose or cough.
- godfreyantonell 5y ago
  nice
giarc 5y ago
I think that's not quite what we want, however it might be what we have to accept. Ideally, people who are stick will stay home, rather than put on a mask and go out into public. However the current state (pre-pandemic) is 'be sick, go out into public and claim it's just allergies'. So perhaps putting a mask on is a good substitute.
- taylodl 5y ago
  A lot of people will simply lose their jobs if they don't go in to work, whether they're sick or not. A lot of those jobs are in food service. Wearing masks in extremely crowded public areas going forward is probably a good idea.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  It depends. You are right that if you can work from home, you definitely should, if infected. But we cannot expect people to be quarantined because of a cold, you might have to buy groceries for example. Or travel to a doctor. Or if you have to come to work. In those cases, wear a mask!
- j7ake 5y ago
  There are simply situations where people are sick but still need to be out in the public. For example, if you are sick but your child still needs to be taken a school event or needs something from the store, you may still need to go out in public.

49531 5y ago

Ditto. Anecdotally winter 2020 was the healthiest I've had in years. It became a personal expectation for me that I would be vaguely sick from November to March which was not the case in 2020.

icedchai 5y ago
I rarely get sick, but getting a cold a couple times a year wasn't unusual. I haven't had a cold since mid 2019.

lamontcg 5y ago

Airplanes and airports definitely. Caught too many viruses going on vacation.

yibg 5y ago

Japan (and other Asian countries) have been doing this for a while now. Seems to work for them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pigeonhole123 5y ago
So they don't have flu epidemics?
- pigeonhole123 5y ago
  Let me rephrase: is there any (peer reviewed with a control group) evidence that this has any real effect on e.g. flu?

irq11 5y ago

You will not be protected from influenza and common cold. All prior literature on masks and these viruses have found little/no effect. Moreover: “mask-wearing countries” like Japan, Korea and China have plenty of cold and flu to go around.

jrnichols 5y ago
Japan in particular had a record breaking flu season in 2019. Millions of flu cases. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/370/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/370/

vmurthy 5y ago

I'd continue with frequent hand-washing/sanitising to this. I remember reading that Influenza virii spread via touch as well [0]. Plus, it's just good hygiene :) [0]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm#:~:text=These%20droplets%20can%20land%20in%20the%20mouths%20or,their%20own%20mouth%2C%20nose%2C%20or%20possibly%20their%20eyes https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm#:~:text=The....

diveanon 5y ago

This is the way. As a Westerner living in Asia for a while now, masks in public was one of the no-brainers that was very easy to adopt. It's like taking your shoes off in the home, it just makes sense.

rimliu 5y ago

Good for anononimity, may be bot so good at influenza prevention: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article