20 ms·

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of tho

• flyinghamster 5y ago
  USB-C sure turned into a mess, didn't it? So far, I only have two such devices (a cell phone and a set of headphones), and there's no problem charging either. But even there, we already have proprietary extensions (Qualcomm quick charging, for instance), and then there's Thunderbolt, and now this. I'm not enthusiastic about wading into the world of "every port looks identical but isn't" that USB-C has given us. I have to keep my cell phone charger cable with the charger at all times, because it's my only cable compatible with Qualcomm quick charging. Naturally, there's no visible indication of this.
  • sonograph 5y ago
    After only reading the headlines promising the bright future of USB-C, I am very disappointed now that I carry three USB-C in my backpack for different use-cases.
    • yurishimo 5y ago
      Can you explain the differences between them? I don't have many USB-C devices (Switch and MacBook) but wouldn't you be able to use the most "fully featured" cable for every scenario?
      • ev1 5y ago
        The most "fully featured" cable with a USB-C tip is often like <0.5m long.
        • notatoad 5y ago
          which perfectly ecapsulates the "problem" with usb-c: everybody wants a cable with all the features, but only wants to pay for the cheapest cable. and then gets frustrated when their $3 cable doesn't support thunderbolt and high-power modes. you can get 3-metre thunderbolt cables if you want, you just have to pay a lot for them. all the problems with USB-C can be solved by spending more money. if you want to go the cheap route and buy cables that don't support all the various modes, then you're going to end up with a bunch of cables that don't support some modes and have to keep track of which ones those are. if you regularly use devices that need higher-spec cables, it's probably worth keeping one good high-spec USB-C cable in your bag, instead of three terrible ones.
        • texasbigdata 5y ago
          And $40+. Buying a long one for a music recording interface (that sweet sweet I/O) was super painful. I guess it's cheaper now but in what world is a $50 cable to power an accessory reasonable in any way. Source: https://www.sweetwater.com/c1225--Thunderbolt_Cables https://www.sweetwater.com/c1225--Thunderbolt_Cables
          • ev1 5y ago
            It's kind of funny when (pre-covid) at the office people would point out my dock TB/USBC connector and how thick it was. It carries probably 100W+ for power, multiple 4K displays, ethernet, half a dozen USB3 ports... I'd rather it not be the thickness of a 5W charging cable.
  • 7ewis 5y ago
    It's not _terrible_, but could definitely be improved. I'm fairly content with my current situation. My phone has 'WARP' charge, which fully charges it in less than half an hour, however it can also charge (at a slower rate): * Earphones * Shaver * Handheld Fan * MacBook I rarely connect my devices to a display, but that is supported with my cable too. The only device I use semi-regularly that isn't USB C is my Bose QC35s, but they last ~20hrs so usually last a few weeks due to my low usage. On the other hand, my Mac charger can charge my phone (and obviously Mac) but none of the other devices...
  • ak217 5y ago
    I don't know, the flipside is that Thunderbolt delivers genuinely cutting-edge interconnect capabilities. I can run two 4K60 displays and a dozen peripheral devices, and charge my laptop, all via a single cable off of my $100 Thunderbolt 3 dock. There is no other technology that comes close to this capability at this price point.
    • asdff 5y ago
      At the same time, I have no idea if the cable I have is a thunderbolt or usb-c cable. There is no standard marking.
      • lajamerr 5y ago
        You might not know in advance which is a problem but it seems pretty trivial issue. Just test it and see if it works, if it doesn't return it and get a different one. Then repeat the process until you get the one you need.
        • asdff 5y ago
          Or you could look at the cable from the getgo and read a simple marking and not have to do this song and dance.
      • polutropos 5y ago
        Your Thunderbolt cables don't have the lightening bolt logo on them? I didn't think it was a 'requirement' but every TB cable I've seen always has the thunderbolt icon.
        • asdff 5y ago
          Not my apple one.
          • djrogers 5y ago
            Then it's either not genuine Apple or it's not Thunderbolt. This is what an Apple Thunderbolt cable looks like: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD862LL/A/apple-thunderbolt-cable-05-m https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD862LL/A/apple-thunderbo...
  • danhor 5y ago
    Quick Charging 3.0 is more-or-less a hack and shouldn't be done on usb-c (unfortunately, cheap manufacturers still do). Quick Charging 4.0 is just USB-PD, so a different name but compatible.
• aboringusername 5y ago
  We should give anyone involved in the USB-IF a test: Here are 10 different cables, you must accurately describe each of their features in detail (USB speeds, charging speeds/power delivery, video out? What version of Display Port does it support?). Make one mistake and you'll be executed. Obviously I don't advocate for that but it's damn annoying you can have one cable do so many different things and not know by looking at it. At least USB 3 was often times blue to offer a distinction. These days I plug in a cable and prey it functions as advertised (sometimes it's 50/50). Awful mess.
  • jsight 5y ago
    > These days I plug in a cable and prey it functions as advertised (sometimes it's 50/50). Are you preying on the folks at USB-IF?
  • SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    The issue isn't the number of things supported, it's that there are optionally-supported things. If every cable needed to support everything, and every host port needed to support every valid device type, it'd be fine. But instead you get cables that don't properly work with alternate modes, host ports that don't implement DisplayPort, etc. It's cheaper, but ridiculously frustrating.
    • cletus 5y ago
      Sorry but not true. To get full bandwidth really limits how long the cable can be. Like I don't think you'll find 40Gbps cables longer than about 0.5m. This is more expensive too (eg there are generally chips in the plugs at either end to handle attenuation). But there's obviously a use case for cables longer than that. It is true that we have cables that support data but not power and power but not data or data at different bandwidths and so on. It's a mess. But it's not a case of simply choosing not to support optional features.
      • danhor 5y ago
        The Apple Thunderbolt 3 Pro Cable (2 m) is one of the only cables that can support everything usb-c over such a long distance [1]. But that costs 129$, which just wouldn't work for smartphone charging for which cables (usb-c 2.0 & 60w, the least you can do while still being spec-compliant) cost 7$. I think I haven't seen such a clear & easy to grasp demonstration of tradeoffs anywhere else. [1] For the longest time, this was the only cable to do it all. I think more are available now, but they're still very much non-affordable.
• jl6 5y ago
  Is there a possible outcome where cable components become cheap enough that every USB-C cable is a universal cable that does everything?
  • chippiewill 5y ago
    No because vendors will keep putting custom things into their cables to support magic XYZ feature.
  • sokoloff 5y ago
    As long as there’s a penny to be made by shaving component costs, probably not. I have USB micro cables that “work” to charge phones or for data but will give voltage throttling errors if used to power an RPi3 or later. This is presumably from using wires internally of too small gauge. I can’t see things like that stopping.
    • izacus 5y ago
      It's not pennies - 0.5m of TB3 cable is 50$. 2m of TB3 cable is 130$. 2m of USB3.1 cable is 15$. Massive difference, don't you think?
      • sokoloff 5y ago
        By pennies, I meant if someone can sell a substandard (but "mostly works") cable of any variety and have the parts cost $0.10/meter less, the market will ensure that happens. Was comparing TB2.995 vs TB3, not TB vs USB.
  • Dylan16807 5y ago
    Not if you want cables that are longer than two feet. There's a tradeoff between speed and distance. And that's after you solve the problem of people trying to cut out a couple pennies of copper. And the people that want thinner cables just for charging.
  • kalleboo 5y ago
    No, because they will keep adding features at the high end as the previous high end features get cheaper and new high end features become possible
• deleted 5y ago
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• eldaisfish 5y ago
  there's also the very real danger of identical ports bricking devices. See the nintendo switch issue where some users have bricked their devices due to nintendo's implementation of USB C. This limits the chargers you can use and nintendo may well deny a warranty claim if a third-party charger was used. Not the best source - https://old.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_switch_is_not_usbc_compliant_and_overdraws/ https://old.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_...
  • Dylan16807 5y ago
    Not true, the bricking was from was blatantly broken chargers putting 9 volts onto low-voltage signal pins.
    • eldaisfish 5y ago
      that's one explanation but there is another that is relevant to this thread - Nintendo diverging from the USB C standard implementation. End of the day, standards exist for a reason and nintendo diverged from the standard https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-switch-consoles-keep-frying/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw... If the port fails open—meaning pins just don't make electrical contact—there's usually no real harm done. But if they fail short—meaning pins are bridged electrically to pins they have no business connecting to—you may easily overvolt a pin. Remember that 6V absolute maximum rating on the Configuration Channel of the Switch's USB-C PD chip? Well, it's only 0.5mm away from the VBus (main power line), which carries 15V.
• deleted 5y ago
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• jessikat 5y ago
  At least USB-A receptacles were coloured... did we really need to descend into hell for a slightly slimmer reversible plug that wears out even faster than USB-A cables?
  • Causality1 5y ago
    Not to mention they're significantly thicker and wider than the micro-b socket they replaced, so many tiny products will continue shipping with micro-b indefinitely. Also I've destroyed probably half a dozen of them by accidentally stepping on or rolling my chair over the connector and smushing it flat.
    • mixmastamyk 5y ago
      The little ones broke too often.
• KingOfCoders 5y ago
  I know design and all this, but I would prefer red, blue, green plugs and corresponding colors on my laptop to make it easier what I can plugin where - with my desktop I which has around 10 USB ports I always struggle to find the right one.
• deleted 5y ago
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• grawprog 5y ago
  I haven't had to delve into the world of trying to find an appropriate USB-C cable until fairly recently. I didn't actually understand the situation thinking a replacement USB-C cable should just work. Oh hell no and none of the packaging actually explains what features a cable supports, none of them actually explain what the cable is actually compatible with. The little android logo doesn't mean shit. Sure, you might be able to slowly charge your phone with a particular cable, but it doesn't mean it'll do anything else it's supposed to do.
  • neither_color 5y ago
    And every time I buy a new device and think I'll be able to use my existing USB-C cables I'm met with a new standard. Bought a new external GPU enclosure? My macbook charging cable wont work I need a 40gbps thunderbolt THREE(not 2) cable. Bought a new Oculus Quest? Neither my egpu or macbook cables work I need an $80 LINK cable.
    • grlass 5y ago
      I wonder if the the committee have looked at integrating colour or some other indicator into the standard so that cable/port capabilities are clear visually. Though ofc the design challenge is for users to feel comfortable that putting red into blue won't break anything, it just might not give the expected features.
      • dr_orpheus 5y ago
        This does seem like it would be helpful. They started coloring the USB-A ports blue for those that were compatible with USB 3 high speed data. I think the challenge may be to get people to understand it more than being afraid to plug blue in to black. I know quite a few people just assumed the color choice was a design choice and if the cable fits, plug it in.
      • ohazi 5y ago
        Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.). Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.
• rini17 5y ago
  Are there cheap devices that measure USB cables? So that user plugs the cable into it (both ends) and it will list what protocols/bandwidth does it support. And electrical resistance of course.
  • jerf 5y ago
    How much information about the cable is exposed to a computer's interface, even if nothing is plugged in on the other side? Could this just be a computer program, albeit one that may only work with certain controllers?
  • Dagonfly 5y ago
    https://www.chargerlab.com/category/power-z/ https://www.chargerlab.com/category/power-z/ These read out the e-marker and tell you the supported power delivery and USB data speeds. The irony that their product comparison table has 30+ rows should not be missed!
  • wsinks 5y ago
    Wow, the tool that I didn't realize I wanted. Let me know if you find one. I don't have an inexpensive one.
  • _Microft 5y ago
    Maybe with an attached labelling machine to print the results in a way that could easily be affixed to the cable? ;) Oh, and please with an integrated wirecutter that automatically destroys cables if their results are too bad?
    • pantalaimon 5y ago
      Heh I had a cursed micro-USB cable at the office that only carried power, no data - had fun debugging why my board did not work.
      • vel0city 5y ago
        Sometimes those are useful. I've got a Canon camera which can charge by MicroUSB, but if it detects any data it doesn't engage the charger and does data only. So having a power only cable is the only way to charge it without taking the battery out and putting that on a charger.
• deleted 5y ago
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• skybrian 5y ago
  It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.
  • andrewmunsell 5y ago
    Explaining to my aunt or uncle or grandparents that, no, the cable and charger they bought isn't the right one for their phone/laptop/whatever even though it fits isn't ideal. Sure, it might just charge slowly (cue family tech support call), but it could also just show "not charging" on OS X for example, which is just confusing for most people. It's a real problem, even if tech savvy people are fine with lower charge speeds because we know that the charger/cable/device combo only supports PD profile whatever.
    • chrisacky 5y ago
      Even I have this problem. I bbought an amp reader and throw out anything reporting below 0.4ma/h. So many devices come bundles with poor cables my house is riddled with cables that I just never want to use for charging. I'm actually TERRIFIED of pluggin anything in to my kids Switch other than Nintendo's official cable, incase I brick i t. Does anyone know if they've patched this? I have some Dell laptop charger USB-Cs which I use alot, and I've had to caution everything in the family to never plug the Switch into it despite it fitting and despite every room in the house having such a charger...
      • robotnikman 5y ago
        I use an HP laptop USB C charger with my switch sometimes, if that anecdote helps.
      • MinorTom 5y ago
        The Switches USB-C implementation is genuinely broken, so this isn't the fault of the connector. A spec-compliant charger, cable and connector will never brick anything (or catch on fire, for that matter)
• jayd16 5y ago
  I'd much rather have this and all the fallback than "well it could work but they put a little nub on the port so it doesn't fit."
• gspr 5y ago
  Ooh! Will some of them unexpectedly fry the host, the client, or both, unless you spend hours perusing through spreadsheets curated by some random hero on the internet too?
• CyberDildonics 5y ago
  Don't forget super speed, super speed+ and super speed+ 2x2
• Hypx_ 5y ago
  We're frankly headed towards a USB type-D standard, where we intentionally create different ports for different uses. A dedicated power connector should never a data connector, and there should be a way to differentiate A/V ports from periphery ports. The mess we are in now doesn't really work as intended.
• mekster 5y ago
  Will people ever stop complaining? If it started making physically different cables or sockets to add new features, people whine how nothing is compatible anymore and if it stopped adding new features to stay compatible, you call the standard dead and not forward thought. Instead it's gradually upgrading the standard with the same physical socket, so that at least some compatibilities are kept and it's still moving forward. Can it be better than that? A bit of confusion on which version you need is better than not being able to plug it in at all.
• asddubs 5y ago
  if only we could go back in time and warn ourselves about usb type-c. the future seemed so bright
• dheera 5y ago
  > won’t need to be equipped with an ugly barrel jack Please bring the barrel jacks back. They were virtually unbreakable. I break about a USB-C cable a week because the connectors are super weak and supported only by 2 dots of solder on a PCB instead of a solid cutout on the housing. USB-C should have at least standardized the shape of the rubberized housing around the connector, made a matching inset shape on the equipment, and have that take the brunt of all mechanical stress, just like an IEC power cable, which you can drop bricks on and they won't break.
• yoz-y 5y ago
  Meh, I know it's a bummer and have had problems with this too. However, HDMI, DP, USB-A all have this problem to some extent. (E.g.: my graphics card does not work at-all (as in not even let the computer to boot) if an older HDMI cable is plugged in.