4 ms·

Hey there, I'm an American in the US I've done business over chat apps for several years. Mostly being around Chinese, Nigerian, Indian, Phillipine and Malaysia

Hey there, I'm an American in the US I've done business over chat apps for several years. Mostly being around Chinese, Nigerian, Indian, Phillipine and Malaysian crowds on those apps. You just have to listen, the trend has been clear but in the US people derive clout from pretty irrelevant things, such as a domain name, domain name information, and people with ideas think they need SEO and other marketing gimmicks. The biggest trick is the banks. When using fiat and opening a bank account for an incorporated business, the bankers often ask for information on the company like website presence of marketing materials. For the past few years I've been able to point to articles about commerce in Asia being chat app based, to get past that. Bankers don't actually care, but you do need to know how to make them not begin to care.

benhurmarcel 5y ago
Isn't it simpler to just have a single static web page, to show that presence? Even if it's just for western contacts such as banks.
- vmception 5y ago
  Simpler? It's just "you can if you want". The incorporated entity is just for limiting liability, having properties in its name instead of yours, and more easily convincing tax authorities that the universe of tax deductible expenses is so great. You can be paid for goods and services immediately, these days.
athenot 5y ago
> the bankers often ask for information on the company like website presence of marketing materials. It's not too long ago they would ask for information faxed using company letterhead, as a form of legitimization. The signals they use to vet customers are, again, a decade or two behind what's technologically relevant.
- wftglf 5y ago
  > It's not too long ago they would ask for information faxed using company letterhead, as a form of legitimization. I had PayPal ask me for exactly this (emailed rather than faxed) recently for my PayPal business account!
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Ironically, I just had a banker ask me for a document on my employer's letterhead today. To which my boss replied "Wtf is letterhead?"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    Faxes? Letterheads? To me, those sound almost like the "proof of work" idea behind some blockchain technologies. Essentially: "Prove to us that you're a legitimate entity, because clearly you have bothered to set up support for such legacy solutions." Personally, i'd be more comfortable with the modern approach being something more along the lines of: You should put the token that we'll provide you with under your corporate website's page: https://<YOUR_DOMAIN>/.well-known/identity-challenge/<TOKEN> A bit like what is done by Let's Encrypt for providing HTTPS (though there could be additional technical details). Of course, this does almost nothing for the website being compromised, but still feels less nonsensical than using fax and using letterheads and such.
    - toomanybeersies 5y ago
      I think you're missing the point. The bank doesn't want you to prove ownership of a particular asset; they want you to prove that you are "carrying on a business". Owning a website (or a printer, or a truck, or lots of money) doesn't mean you have a business. It's about the nature and purpose of your activities with those assets (or skills). I can add an identity token to my personal website, but that doesn't make it a business any more than putting a saddle on a zebra makes it a horse. This ruling from the Australian Tax Office lays out pretty clearly the defining characteristics of a business [1]. It's probably a bit different in the USA, but I'm sure it's not too dissimilar. [1] https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR20191/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=20190904000001 https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR20191/N...
  - williamtwild 5y ago
    Is your boss your boss by position or an actual owner who deals with HR issues? I cannot fathom how anyone who runs or owns a business has never heard the term letterhead.

benhurmarcel 5y ago

Isn't it simpler to just have a single static web page, to show that presence? Even if it's just for western contacts such as banks.

vmception 5y ago
Simpler? It's just "you can if you want". The incorporated entity is just for limiting liability, having properties in its name instead of yours, and more easily convincing tax authorities that the universe of tax deductible expenses is so great. You can be paid for goods and services immediately, these days.

athenot 5y ago

> the bankers often ask for information on the company like website presence of marketing materials. It's not too long ago they would ask for information faxed using company letterhead, as a form of legitimization. The signals they use to vet customers are, again, a decade or two behind what's technologically relevant.

wftglf 5y ago
> It's not too long ago they would ask for information faxed using company letterhead, as a form of legitimization. I had PayPal ask me for exactly this (emailed rather than faxed) recently for my PayPal business account!
ethbr0 5y ago
Ironically, I just had a banker ask me for a document on my employer's letterhead today. To which my boss replied "Wtf is letterhead?"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- KronisLV 5y ago
  Faxes? Letterheads? To me, those sound almost like the "proof of work" idea behind some blockchain technologies. Essentially: "Prove to us that you're a legitimate entity, because clearly you have bothered to set up support for such legacy solutions." Personally, i'd be more comfortable with the modern approach being something more along the lines of: You should put the token that we'll provide you with under your corporate website's page: https://<YOUR_DOMAIN>/.well-known/identity-challenge/<TOKEN> A bit like what is done by Let's Encrypt for providing HTTPS (though there could be additional technical details). Of course, this does almost nothing for the website being compromised, but still feels less nonsensical than using fax and using letterheads and such.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    I think you're missing the point. The bank doesn't want you to prove ownership of a particular asset; they want you to prove that you are "carrying on a business". Owning a website (or a printer, or a truck, or lots of money) doesn't mean you have a business. It's about the nature and purpose of your activities with those assets (or skills). I can add an identity token to my personal website, but that doesn't make it a business any more than putting a saddle on a zebra makes it a horse. This ruling from the Australian Tax Office lays out pretty clearly the defining characteristics of a business [1]. It's probably a bit different in the USA, but I'm sure it's not too dissimilar. [1] https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR20191/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=20190904000001 https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR20191/N...
- williamtwild 5y ago
  Is your boss your boss by position or an actual owner who deals with HR issues? I cannot fathom how anyone who runs or owns a business has never heard the term letterhead.