3 ms·

Good. I'm excited to see the results from this. Public transport should be considered infrastructure in the same way roads are, with taxes on private vehicles t

by jjcm 5y ago

Good. I'm excited to see the results from this. Public transport should be considered infrastructure in the same way roads are, with taxes on private vehicles to offset it. It leads to less cars on the road, less polution, less traffic, and a city designed around the public transportation once usage reaches critical mass.

Closi 5y ago
I think one flip-side argument is that this will predominantly benefit people in cities, which have much better transport infrastructure than suburban areas. Hopefully the money this costs is matched on a per-capita basis by region across the country to ensure that regions with less-developed public transport can also benefit.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  In France (like SV, I guess), the equivalent of America’s “inner city” is the French suburb and vice-versa, so if we take what you said as true then this is unfortunately not empowering those that need it the most.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    That's true, but in the particular case of Paris, the worst thing related to transit is there are next to no "across" lines. Say you're in some suburb and need to get 20 km away in another suburb, you're likely SoL. You'll have to get all the way to Paris center and then back again. Or maybe change 5 buses for an even longer journey time. I had this exact issue when I was in college, 30 km away from my parents'. 25-30 minutes car ride or 1.5 h train ride. I'm really hopeful for the creation and extension of some metro lines, some of which will circle around Paris, helping with this suburb-to-suburb situation.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      Your information is a tad outdated. There are a bunch of trams ( Lines 1-12 are in operation and only 3 is in Paris, and runs along its border, the rest are across different suburbs) which are being built/expanded to cover just that, and then there's the biggest infrastructure project in Europe, the Grand Paris Express, a 200km+ ( iirc) system of 4 metro lines, linking suburbs to suburbs ( like the line 15, which will be a circle line in the suburbs). Fascinating stuff, and the first stage is expected for 2024-2025, while the latest around 2030.
      - vladvasiliu 5y ago
        The Grand Paris Express is the project I was talking about with the new metro lines and extensions of some older ones. I will have to look at the tram situation more closely, I'm not very familiar with them, and in my mind the lines were pretty short. I see the T1 covers quite some distance though.
- OskarS 5y ago
  I don’t see this as a bad thing. Suburbs have large negative externalities, disincentivizing people from living in them as opposed to dense urban centers seems like a fine policy to me.
  - arkh 5y ago
    How fast we forget about the lock-downs enacted during the current pandemic. Public transportation and dense urban centers: the best to spread virus and then "enjoy" your quarantine.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      Despite your opinion, viruses do not penetrate walls. Density has nothing to do with spread of viruses. Also, it does not make sense to design cities around events like this.
      - Closi 5y ago
        > Despite your opinion, viruses do not penetrate walls. Despite your research, public transport vehicles don't tend to have walls.
        immibis 5y ago
        Then, you should support more public transport, so that people can sit out in the sunshine and fresh air on their way to work and avoid spreading the virus. Also, what is better about riding to work than about walking to work? The latter also does not spread the virus as much.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Public transport in France is cheap and, as mentioned by another commenter, employers must subsidise 50% of their employees' season ticket. In the Paris area it is extremely developed and used. I don't think that people who drive now would suddenly use public transport instead if that was free instead of costing 50 euros a month (random example). My personal take is that making public transport free won't change things much in France, and may not be the best way to spend public money right now.
benhurmarcel 5y ago
> It leads to less cars on the road It also leads to fewer pedestrians and cyclists unfortunately.

by jjcm 5y ago

Closi 5y ago

I think one flip-side argument is that this will predominantly benefit people in cities, which have much better transport infrastructure than suburban areas. Hopefully the money this costs is matched on a per-capita basis by region across the country to ensure that regions with less-developed public transport can also benefit.

ComputerGuru 5y ago
In France (like SV, I guess), the equivalent of America’s “inner city” is the French suburb and vice-versa, so if we take what you said as true then this is unfortunately not empowering those that need it the most.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  That's true, but in the particular case of Paris, the worst thing related to transit is there are next to no "across" lines. Say you're in some suburb and need to get 20 km away in another suburb, you're likely SoL. You'll have to get all the way to Paris center and then back again. Or maybe change 5 buses for an even longer journey time. I had this exact issue when I was in college, 30 km away from my parents'. 25-30 minutes car ride or 1.5 h train ride. I'm really hopeful for the creation and extension of some metro lines, some of which will circle around Paris, helping with this suburb-to-suburb situation.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Your information is a tad outdated. There are a bunch of trams ( Lines 1-12 are in operation and only 3 is in Paris, and runs along its border, the rest are across different suburbs) which are being built/expanded to cover just that, and then there's the biggest infrastructure project in Europe, the Grand Paris Express, a 200km+ ( iirc) system of 4 metro lines, linking suburbs to suburbs ( like the line 15, which will be a circle line in the suburbs). Fascinating stuff, and the first stage is expected for 2024-2025, while the latest around 2030.
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      The Grand Paris Express is the project I was talking about with the new metro lines and extensions of some older ones. I will have to look at the tram situation more closely, I'm not very familiar with them, and in my mind the lines were pretty short. I see the T1 covers quite some distance though.
OskarS 5y ago
I don’t see this as a bad thing. Suburbs have large negative externalities, disincentivizing people from living in them as opposed to dense urban centers seems like a fine policy to me.
- arkh 5y ago
  How fast we forget about the lock-downs enacted during the current pandemic. Public transportation and dense urban centers: the best to spread virus and then "enjoy" your quarantine.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    Despite your opinion, viruses do not penetrate walls. Density has nothing to do with spread of viruses. Also, it does not make sense to design cities around events like this.
    - Closi 5y ago
      > Despite your opinion, viruses do not penetrate walls. Despite your research, public transport vehicles don't tend to have walls.
      - immibis 5y ago
        Then, you should support more public transport, so that people can sit out in the sunshine and fresh air on their way to work and avoid spreading the virus. Also, what is better about riding to work than about walking to work? The latter also does not spread the virus as much.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Public transport in France is cheap and, as mentioned by another commenter, employers must subsidise 50% of their employees' season ticket. In the Paris area it is extremely developed and used. I don't think that people who drive now would suddenly use public transport instead if that was free instead of costing 50 euros a month (random example). My personal take is that making public transport free won't change things much in France, and may not be the best way to spend public money right now.

benhurmarcel 5y ago

> It leads to less cars on the road It also leads to fewer pedestrians and cyclists unfortunately.