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> This was my third time in SF. > Also, I've always refused to move to Silicon Valley > The author is in denial. > it is a really expensive shithole I'm alw

> This was my third time in SF. > Also, I've always refused to move to Silicon Valley > The author is in denial. > it is a really expensive shithole I'm always amazed by people who have visited a place a few times as a tourist and think "I'm qualified to shit on people who choose to live here". What makes you think you have any say in the situation? SF has massive neighborhood diversity as far as living situations go. Yeah, the downtown and tourist areas suck. So what? That's the case in a ton of cities. I've lived in a neighborhood here for 7 years that has low crime, no shit on the streets, and is generally a great place to live. Yeah, we've got a shit DA right now which hurts the city with increased petty crimes. We'll turn it around eventually.

devoutsalsa 5y ago
I lived in San Francisco for 15 years, and it’s getting pretty nasty in some places. When ever I meet someone who’s visited San Francisco, almost without exception, they comment on the homeless problem. The problem is SF is so bad you can’t help but comment on it because you’ve likely never experienced anything like it elsewhere in the USA. Who wants to visit a city where the first thing you experience is aggressive panhandling and streets covered in poop?
Cookingboy 5y ago
>What makes you think you have any say in the situation? He doesn't have a say, but that doesn't mean he can't have valid opinions as an outsider with a more unbiased perspective. To be clear I've lived in SF Bay Area for 10+ years and I've also traveled extensively/lived in other world class cities. SF really is a more expensive shithole. It doesn't mean there aren't any charms but anyone who doesn't acknowledge SF's shortfalls vs. other top cities is in complete denial.
- girvo 5y ago
  Being an outsider has nothing to do with being unbiased. Those are entirely orthogonal. And frankly, that commenters bias was pretty evident, regardless.
kardianos 5y ago
Because we walk around our own cities for YEARS and see less of this then we do on a random walk on a single day.
- darkhorse22 5y ago
  SF is a very densely populated place, so that shouldn't be a surprise (if you live in NYC, I don't believe you).
  - MagnumOpus 5y ago
    Lots of people have visited SF as well as more densely populated places both in the US and elsewhere. So have I - and downtown SF is worse (in terms of littering, human excrement, aggressive panhandling, street crime) than the problematic parts of NYC, DC, Philly and Baltimore, worse than densely populated capitals in Latin America or East Asia or Eastern Europe. It's better than Indian cities but that is a very low bar for one of the world's richest cities.
    - darkhorse22 5y ago
      I sort of doubt that you've spent much time in the most problematic parts of DC/Philly/Baltimore. Their peers are Chicago, New Orleans, and St. Louis. Not remotely SF.
wearywanderer 5y ago
> I'm always amazed by people who have visited a place a few times as a tourist and think "I'm qualified to shit on people who choose to live here". I'm amazed by the number of people who live in San Francisco and think "I'm qualified to shit on this sidewalk".
dcow 5y ago
Just curious, what are you doing to turn it around? I don't think it's fair to use the collective "we" in this case unless you're actively working to solve these problems. Otherwise it comes off as incredibly dismissive.
- yupper32 5y ago
  Voting, contributing to campaigns, some volunteering around prop times. Though I'll admit I haven't done much around the recall of our DA outside of donating. I should be doing more there. I'm also active in my neighborhood in my own way, trying to get people together for events (think trivia, bar game tournaments, etc). Though of course this has limited during covid. I think your comment is kinda rude, though. Even if all I was doing was voting, I think I'd still qualify to talk on the issues. Anything more is gatekeeping.
  - dcow 5y ago
    I simply asked, didn't suggest you weren't doing things. Please read my comment carefully--I specifically tried to be careful not to imply anything. I asked because I think participating locally is the only real answer, so kudos.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - cudgy 5y ago
    Have the candidates you voted for won any of the elections? Or would your candidates have done differently than the currently elected officials? Many people blame government but think their own representation is fine. California has huge problems with affordable housing and homelessness but their left-leaning residents and politicians seem ineffective against the problem. One would think that left-leaning governments would solve these problems more effectively. For example, why is the governor of California issuing refunds of a surplus budget when throes of mentally ill and drug addicted citizens swarm the streets with no effective assistance or clean area to defecate? It is appalling to say the least.
insert_coin 5y ago
> SF has massive neighborhood diversity as far as living situations go. Yeah, the downtown and tourist areas suck. The fact that you needed to say that says a lot. While describing most cities of the world, most third world country cities of the world, you would never even mention the word feces, much less defend its presence on the streets.
- yupper32 5y ago
  And in most cities I haven't had to bribe a cop, like the one time I went to Mexico. And in most cities I haven't heard the result of an acid attack outside of my hotel lobby, like one of the times I've visited London. I'd take feces over those examples any day. And yet, I'm not going to shit on those places, because I was a tourist. I get that some places, especially some tourist and downtown areas, are more dangerous than others. And I get that my tourist experience doesn't necessarily reflect the day-to-day of normal residents.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Comparing acid attacks in London to San Francisco's problems is like comparing plane crashes to car crashes. The former is worse per occurrence and gets more attention, but the latter is much, much more common and so worse overall.
    - yupper32 5y ago
      You've missed my point entirely. My point is that just because I heard an acid attack outside my hotel in London, it does not make me qualified to criticize London or those who choose to live there. Just as someone who visited SF a few times and saw some feces (etc) is not qualified to criticize SF or those who choose to live here.
      - jwilber 5y ago
        Right, but if you heard an acid attack outside of your hotel three visits in a row, it’d be a different story. I’ve spent six years in the Bay (SF and Berkeley), and the unfortunate truth is that the feces, homelessness, and public drug use have become prominent features of today’s SF.
Redoubts 5y ago
Ive lived in SF for years. It’s exactly like this It’s not just downtown, It’s not like this in any cities at all Get out more, and stop living in denial.

devoutsalsa 5y ago

I lived in San Francisco for 15 years, and it’s getting pretty nasty in some places. When ever I meet someone who’s visited San Francisco, almost without exception, they comment on the homeless problem. The problem is SF is so bad you can’t help but comment on it because you’ve likely never experienced anything like it elsewhere in the USA. Who wants to visit a city where the first thing you experience is aggressive panhandling and streets covered in poop?

Cookingboy 5y ago

>What makes you think you have any say in the situation? He doesn't have a say, but that doesn't mean he can't have valid opinions as an outsider with a more unbiased perspective. To be clear I've lived in SF Bay Area for 10+ years and I've also traveled extensively/lived in other world class cities. SF really is a more expensive shithole. It doesn't mean there aren't any charms but anyone who doesn't acknowledge SF's shortfalls vs. other top cities is in complete denial.

girvo 5y ago
Being an outsider has nothing to do with being unbiased. Those are entirely orthogonal. And frankly, that commenters bias was pretty evident, regardless.

kardianos 5y ago

Because we walk around our own cities for YEARS and see less of this then we do on a random walk on a single day.

darkhorse22 5y ago
SF is a very densely populated place, so that shouldn't be a surprise (if you live in NYC, I don't believe you).
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  Lots of people have visited SF as well as more densely populated places both in the US and elsewhere. So have I - and downtown SF is worse (in terms of littering, human excrement, aggressive panhandling, street crime) than the problematic parts of NYC, DC, Philly and Baltimore, worse than densely populated capitals in Latin America or East Asia or Eastern Europe. It's better than Indian cities but that is a very low bar for one of the world's richest cities.
  - darkhorse22 5y ago
    I sort of doubt that you've spent much time in the most problematic parts of DC/Philly/Baltimore. Their peers are Chicago, New Orleans, and St. Louis. Not remotely SF.

wearywanderer 5y ago

> I'm always amazed by people who have visited a place a few times as a tourist and think "I'm qualified to shit on people who choose to live here". I'm amazed by the number of people who live in San Francisco and think "I'm qualified to shit on this sidewalk".

dcow 5y ago

Just curious, what are you doing to turn it around? I don't think it's fair to use the collective "we" in this case unless you're actively working to solve these problems. Otherwise it comes off as incredibly dismissive.

yupper32 5y ago
Voting, contributing to campaigns, some volunteering around prop times. Though I'll admit I haven't done much around the recall of our DA outside of donating. I should be doing more there. I'm also active in my neighborhood in my own way, trying to get people together for events (think trivia, bar game tournaments, etc). Though of course this has limited during covid. I think your comment is kinda rude, though. Even if all I was doing was voting, I think I'd still qualify to talk on the issues. Anything more is gatekeeping.
- dcow 5y ago
  I simply asked, didn't suggest you weren't doing things. Please read my comment carefully--I specifically tried to be careful not to imply anything. I asked because I think participating locally is the only real answer, so kudos.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- cudgy 5y ago
  Have the candidates you voted for won any of the elections? Or would your candidates have done differently than the currently elected officials? Many people blame government but think their own representation is fine. California has huge problems with affordable housing and homelessness but their left-leaning residents and politicians seem ineffective against the problem. One would think that left-leaning governments would solve these problems more effectively. For example, why is the governor of California issuing refunds of a surplus budget when throes of mentally ill and drug addicted citizens swarm the streets with no effective assistance or clean area to defecate? It is appalling to say the least.

insert_coin 5y ago

> SF has massive neighborhood diversity as far as living situations go. Yeah, the downtown and tourist areas suck. The fact that you needed to say that says a lot. While describing most cities of the world, most third world country cities of the world, you would never even mention the word feces, much less defend its presence on the streets.

yupper32 5y ago
And in most cities I haven't had to bribe a cop, like the one time I went to Mexico. And in most cities I haven't heard the result of an acid attack outside of my hotel lobby, like one of the times I've visited London. I'd take feces over those examples any day. And yet, I'm not going to shit on those places, because I was a tourist. I get that some places, especially some tourist and downtown areas, are more dangerous than others. And I get that my tourist experience doesn't necessarily reflect the day-to-day of normal residents.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Comparing acid attacks in London to San Francisco's problems is like comparing plane crashes to car crashes. The former is worse per occurrence and gets more attention, but the latter is much, much more common and so worse overall.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    You've missed my point entirely. My point is that just because I heard an acid attack outside my hotel in London, it does not make me qualified to criticize London or those who choose to live there. Just as someone who visited SF a few times and saw some feces (etc) is not qualified to criticize SF or those who choose to live here.
    - jwilber 5y ago
      Right, but if you heard an acid attack outside of your hotel three visits in a row, it’d be a different story. I’ve spent six years in the Bay (SF and Berkeley), and the unfortunate truth is that the feces, homelessness, and public drug use have become prominent features of today’s SF.

Redoubts 5y ago

Ive lived in SF for years. It’s exactly like this It’s not just downtown, It’s not like this in any cities at all Get out more, and stop living in denial.