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SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin ran for office in November 2019 focusing his campaign on ending mass incarceration with restorative justice models, rather tha
by olivermarks 5y ago
SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin ran for office in November 2019 focusing his campaign on ending mass incarceration with restorative justice models, rather than punitive incarceral methods.
Since then crime in SF has absolutely exploded, fuelled by proposition 47 which reduced stealing less than $900 day to a misdemeanor. Add in a massive opioid crisis and the result is a rapidly growing crisis of shoplifting, petty theft, home invasions, carjacking and general armed thuggery.
The rapidly growing homeless population ( half US homeless are in California with migrants arriving daily) makes the situation worse with drug dealers preying on the vulnerable. I lived in San Francisco for close to 25 years and am now 50 miles north. I'll be in the city tomorrow. I have never seen it this bad, or seen so many predators watching and waiting to strike.
It's still a beautiful place, but you really need to keep your wits about you and stay aware at all times.
- imgabe 5y agoIt seems like a group of 10 concerned citizens could get together and steal $9000 per day from Chesa Boudin until he realizes this is a bad policy.
- epicureanideal 5y agoThe politicians would find a way to charge you for it, because the law in the USA is applied in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If you're not a political opponent of them, they'll let the law operate (or not) as it normally would. If you're a political opponent, they'll scour the laws to find something to get you with, or at least prosecute you until you're bankrupt even knowing they won't convict. See also: "By the people" by Charles Murray "Three felonies a day" by Harvey Silverglate
- artificial 5y agoHow’s that working out in practice in San Fran?
- fighterpilot 5y agoIt needs to be a decentralized protest effort where the risk is shared. 100 individual actors stealing $899 of stuff from his garden over the course of a year and disappearing into the night until he gets the message. Would air to great effect on Fox news. Unfortunately the political right is unbelievably bad at protest efforts.
- Cookingboy 5y agoOh he absolutely knows it's bad policy, however he also knows it wins votes from people in San Francisco. The problem is a large numbers of voters in SF don't realize it's bad policy, and maybe a bigger problem would be why are district attorneys elected positions in the first place?
- kenneth 5y agoEven if they weren't, people would elect a Mayor on a progressive no-prosecuting-crime platform who'd then hire an awful DA… The problem isn't with the position of DA, it's with "progressive" voters.
- Cookingboy 5y agoI consider myself liberal, but I agree with you, the California/SF branch of progressivism are extremely toxic. Much of the platform is based on feelings and ideology instead of facts and problem solving, but it manages to even be worse than the right wing counterpart somehow because it comes served with a side dish of "holier and smarter than thou!"
- seanhandley 5y agoPlenty of "holier than thou" to go round on both sides of the political spectrum.
- bushbaba 5y agoI think there’s a lot of Californians voting in bad policy to curtail gentrification. I’ve seen the logic used by many in SF.
- midhhhthrow 5y agoI had to think about that for a second. It kinda makes sense and works. If you make SF an awful enough place, companies might finally start to consider leaving.
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- olivermarks 5y agoThe current crop of California politicians are extremely noisy on Twitter and social media congratulating themselves on how great everything is but are very well protected from ordinary people. Another villain is the supervisor for Venice Beach in LA, a former bucket list tourist destination and now a massive homeless encampment. Supervisor Bonin refuses to talk to his constituents. People are getting very angry... https://vimeo.com/532718306 https://vimeo.com/532718306
- deepsun 5y agoMany cases are dropped by Boudin's office for insufficient proof, so police has to release suspects. All Boudin needs to do is to not drop that one case involving him.
- fighterpilot 5y agoWhat's the max punishment if he does pursue it?
- smsm42 5y agoUnlike most people in SF, he probably does have an armed guard, and likely one that isn't afraid to use force. My experience shows that communists usually understand the concept of private property very well, as long as it's their personal property. If you try to rob them, you're a domestic terrorist, but if it's anybody else, then you're just a poor misunderstood soul.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Gimpei 5y agoCrime has exploded across the US since the start of COVID, not just SF. So I'm not convinced Chesa is to blame. Which isn't too say I'm a big fan of his either. Homelessness is indeed a problem, but according to the biannual survey, most of the unhoused are from the bay area. This suggested the crisis is the result of skyrocketing rents and the steady disappearance of SROs. Yet another thing we can thank Nimbys for. Shoplifting does appear to be a real issue, although it's unclear why it's so much worse in SF. Proposition 47 is statewide after all. I was born and raised in SF. Crime was much much worse in the 80s and 90s. Not saying we don't need changes, but it isn't a post apocalyptic hellhole... Yet.
- olivermarks 5y agoThe biannual survey point in time counts of homeless across California are so wildly inaccurate and skewed there have been grand jury investigations and findings in counties such as California. There is a giant 'homeless industrial complex' that essentially operates on a model of the ore homeless to 'serve' the more money they ingest, buying motels at way over market rate as 'homes' for the seriously mentally ill and substance abuse casualties as if this will magically solve their issues. Bus therapy and general migration to where the grass is greenest is fueling this, along with very lenient drug law.
- asdff 5y agoI think the elephant in the room is the mental health crisis. You don't notice the person walking by you who lives in their car. You notice the person who is shoeless in traffic and screaming. We elected to close our mental health treatment facilities and turn these people out to the street to fend for themselves. Then when they deny offered treatment or shelter we claim they did it through their own volition and allow them to die on the sidewalk in confusion and poor health. This is the reality.
- olivermarks 5y agoThere are only 6000 psych beds in all of California right now, but the state has spent 13 billion over the last 3 years on 'homeless'. Far more will be spent this year but the problems are getting worse. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-homeless-spending-set-policy-75835197 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-h...
- pvg 5y agohalf US homeless are in California with migrants arriving daily crime in SF has absolutely exploded These don't seem to be reflected in easily googleable stats https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2800&fn[]=6200&fn[]=10000&fn[]=13200 https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2... https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...
- JumpCrisscross 5y agoDevil’s advocate: a lot of crime in San Francisco isn’t reported. For example, the case mentioned in the article.
- paxys 5y agoThe case mentioned in the article was reported. Reported != solved. If you called the police and they wrote it down, that's really all it takes to get counted.
- quanticle 5y agoThe crime in the article was reported. From the article: The police officer said he was glad to have the license plate number but that robbery is so low-profile in the courts right now that even if they did catch him, without video proof, the thieves would be let go within a day or so. No, the officer didn't take action based upon what they saw, but it's reasonable to conclude that a police report was filled out for this incident.
- aranchelk 5y agoIt would be entirely reasonable for the cops to file a report, but I would not make the assumption that they did. Reasons cops file reports include: An intention to investigate the crime The victim requests a report for an insurance claim In this case they know it’s a hard crime to investigate. Based on the articles I’ve read, it seems thieves in SF often use stolen cars, so even the plates may not be that helpful. Moreover we have serious crimes like attempted murder and illegal gun possession in SF going un-prosecuted, so the cops cannot assume an arrest could lead to anything at all. Additionally filing a report with little hope for an arrest makes the precincts numbers look bad. Those numbers will get reported in neighborhood association meetings, and those association people (I’m one of them) can be a real pain in the ass to the politicians (i.e. the boss’s boss’s boss). It’s just not a good incentive structure and if we were going to do a clean redesign IMO the politicians and cops should have as little control over the official statistics as possible.
- dheera 5y agoI've always thought that an honestly useful product would be some kind of theft deterrent device that you either attach to your car, or attach to your camera equipment, and it detects the car window getting smashed or the tripod getting moved out of range of a beacon in the owner's pocket. If triggered it should spray a combination of fart spray, glitter, pepper spray, honey, flour, feathers, ink, in all directions. [EDIT: let's take out the pepper spray, see comments] As a bonus it would also be useful against towing people who try to tow without contacting the owner, but the primary use case would be thieves. I've seen so many companies making dash cams and things of the like, but considering SF does nothing even given evidence, it's time to actually spray the perpetrator with something nasty and embarrassing.
- narrator 5y agoTraps to defend property are very illegal.
- dheera 5y agoWhy would this be a trap? They're free to run, they will just look like a glittering sticky chicken and smell like shit.
- fuzxi 5y agoBooby traps are illegal if designed to cause bodily harm. It's not so cut-and-dry when it's something merely annoying, like a glitter bomb, though I would definitely not want to be the manufacturer trying to defend that in court.
- dragonwriter 5y agoPepper spray, whose purpose is to cause bodily harm, was included in the list of ingredients, so the described booby trap would, indeed, be a prohibited “intended to cause bodily harm” one. (Actually, not only do the general laws on booby traps come into play, but using pepper spray other than in immediate self-defense in California is a crime.)
- MrFlynn 5y ago> Since then crime in SF has absolutely exploded. This is sort of misleading. Burglaries, motor vehicle thefts, and homicides went up, but all other crimes went down. Specifically in the case of homicides, there were 7 more compared to 2019. > I have never seen it this bad. Crime is still at an all time low in SF. The rate of crimes has roughly remained static for the better part of two decades. The increased number of homeless just makes it more visible.
- wearywanderer 5y ago> Burglaries, motor vehicle thefts, and homicides went up, but all other crimes went down. ...but other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
- cameldrv 5y agoMurders don't just disappear, they are almost universally reported and investigated. Burglaries and car thefts need a police report to make an insurance claim. For crimes like assault though, if the police convince the victim that reporting it is pointless, it doesn't show up in the stats. Anecdotally, this is what I have heard is happening.
- kemiller 5y agoYou don’t suppose this is passive resistance by the police to all the scrutiny they’ve been receiving? Start telling people that the system is all backed up and their hands are tied?
- foogazi 5y ago> Anecdotally hmm...
- cameldrv 5y agoRight, anecdotally. The police don't keep stats on how often they tell crime victims to not file a report, so it's hard to get good data. If you look around on the internet, or ask people you know in SF, you will get stories.
- raverbashing 5y agoIt's funny how SF has turned into a daylight sociological experiment. Remove enforcement of several crimes and see it have areas reminiscent of 3rd world countries in a matter of years. (But don't expect this to be in any sociological studies, scholars will still blame "lack of education", "lack of opportunities", etc, while those have a role to play, the major factor that changed here is pretty obvious)
- axbytg 5y ago> see it turn into a 3rd world country in a matter of years This is just a wild thing to claim.
- asdff 5y agoHow is it not? You have ultra rich living above and driving around people living in tarps on the street just like what you see in corrupted "third world" places around the world. It is so demoralizing living near a homeless encampment and seeing how people live every day for years, and seeing nothing done to improve their situation. No other first world country I know is like that. First world countries have governments that support their citizens even at the lowest rung of the ladder. What we have is a third world oligarchy, where politicians listen to powerful people looking to personally enrich themselves first and foremost, and if something happens to help the common man rather than hurt them it is usually happenstance, or highly diluted from the original aim to the point of being inconsequential. There's only action when there is profit motive. It's corrupt.
- bzbarsky 5y agoLast time I was in France (Lyon, a few years ago), there was quite a number of homeless people camping out in the parks. Is France also a third-world country? I agree that the homeless situation is bad. I don't think blanket claims that other "first world" countries handle it much better are necessarily true, unfortunately.
- raverbashing 5y ago
- kstenerud 5y agoAnd the interesting thing is, the laws are even still more draconian than in Western European countries, booking processes more traumatic, prison terms longer, prison conditions an order of magnitude worse, and supervised release much more onerous. And yet Western Europe doesn't suffer anything even close to San Francisco's crime levels.
- dannyw 5y agoProbably because the police actually investigate cases in Western Europe.
- alanfranz 5y agoThey won’t investigate petty thefts. Bike theft is almost legal in Italy. But they will file a report every time.
- dude187 5y ago> the laws are even still more draconian than in Western European countries Theft is effectively legal in SF. Is it in those places? > booking processes more traumatic Subjective nonsense. > prison terms longer, prison conditions an order of magnitude worse, and supervised release much more onerous. In SF, theft does not receive "prison terms".
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoIt isn’t half, maybe 25%? I crunched the numbers awhile ago and it was something like 2X California’s population share, which is about 12%.
- mrastro 5y agoYes, it's estimated to be 26.73% in 2019 [1]. [1] https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2800&fn[]=6200&fn[]=10000&fn[]=13200&all_types=true&year=2019 https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2...
- olivermarks 5y ago'About 150,000 people experiencing homelessness live in the state, including about half the country’s estimated 211,000 residents living unsheltered on the streets or in vehicles.' https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-homeless-spending-set-policy-75835197 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/audit-california-track-h... My opinion is that this is a national problem and we should revert back to a new version of JFK's 1960's model for HUD
- tptacek 5y agoJohn Pfaff, a law professor at Fordham who wrote "the book" on mass incarceration, has been at pains to point out that crime (and particularly violent crime) has risen uniformly, across the country, in both "red" areas and "blue", and the rise cannot be attributed to "progressive prosecutors", or really any particular policy intervention.
- vehementi 5y agoSomeone else mentioned that crime is at an all time low in SF, who is wrong?
- elygre 5y agoAs a foreigner, though a frequent watcher of American crime shows: what exactly is a misdemeanor, and why is it bad that stealing is one? What changed when it was reclassified?
- josephcsible 5y agoThe short answer is that misdemeanors are crimes that aren't that bad (e.g., trespassing), and felonies are crimes that are really bad (e.g., kidnapping). Felonies carry stricter sentences than misdemeanors. By saying that stealing up to $950 worth of product per day is only a misdemeanor, a lot of the deterrent effect goes away.
- scottlamb 5y agoAnd besides that, I've heard many times recently [1] that police and/or courts do not enforce misdemeanor property crimes at all. So it's not just that it's only a fine but rather that there are believed to be no consequences at all. I don't understand why. I hear talk about "priorities". Perhaps it's true that it's not "worth" enforcing these because the people responsible don't have any money to pay fines. But on the other hand, I don't think police actually got defunded, so if they've de-prioritized a major chunk of their job, what are they doing instead? I have basically no idea. Extra public safety things during the pandemic? It'd be nice to think they're doing a better job closing felonies but I haven't heard any evidence of that. Are they sitting around doing nothing? I almost hope they are; my more pessimistic take is that they now can really spend extra quality time harassing minorities... [1] meaning it seems widely believed, correctly or not
- stingrae 5y agoIn this case a misdemeanor for the theft of less than $950 is handled with a ticket and fine. There is no jail time and they go free after the ticket is handed over.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bosswipe 5y agoHow can you make those causation statements so confidently? Prop 47 was passed 2014. The opioid crisis has been going on forever. People are using these stories to fuel their political biases.