4 ms·

How many examples of life-destroying fines do you have?

by Hamuko 5y ago

jchw 5y ago
So basically, you’re in the “No, it’s fine — this will only ever get used against bad guys!” camp. We had 9/11 here in America and the BS that followed and I don’t humor this line of thinking. (Nor humour.)
- Hamuko 5y ago
  No, I'm in the "prove that the thing you are claiming to happen actually happens" camp.
  - jchw 5y ago
    I’m not claiming something happened — do you understand how chilling effects work? The threat of potentially massive fines with very little legal bounds for not following regulations that individuals basically can’t follow means that people who want to follow the rules but aren’t big enough don’t play anymore.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      So no one's life has ever been ruined by the GDPR? But you're still sure that this will happen? What is this based on?
      - jchw 5y ago
        I can get fined between 0 and €20 million at any moment because I am an individual and have no means to fully understand GDPR nor hire a DPO for my stupid personal websites. I make no money in ads or otherwise, but I am still treated like Epic Games if I collect sign up emails or logs. I only still run this stuff now because I’ve been running it for over a decade. I can tell you right now I am hesitant to run websites anymore. If you don’t understand how “ambiguous threat of a fine” isn’t calmed by “it hasn’t happened yet,” I can’t help you. What if my site was politically controversial? Should I trust all EU governments to act responsibly and not take advantage of their power ever?
        anoncake 5y ago
        If there is a real danger that EU gouvernments start abusing their power like that, why is it only Americans that are afraid of it? Not EU citizens, who actually are familiar with how their states behave?
        jchw 5y ago
        Clearly, nobody is afraid by it: I am getting buried insanely any time I criticize GDPR in any way. It is a thing you are not allowed to critique on HN. So I wouldn’t say americans are particularly more bothered by it. But why shouldn’t we be? I have no representation in EU law.
        anoncake 5y ago
        > Clearly, nobody is afraid by it: I am getting buried insanely any time I criticize GDPR in any way. It is a thing you are not allowed to critique on HN. Not if your criticisms are entirely unfounded and bordering on paranoia, no. > But why shouldn't we be? I have no representation in EU law. What? Do you think only EU citizens have rights in the EU?
        jchw 5y ago
        > Not if your criticisms are entirely unfounded and bordering on paranoia, no. I am not a lawyer and I do not have access to a lawyer. I can't afford it. Therefore, I have to assume that I simply do not have the expertise to understand GDPR fully. And unlike most laws, it is not a matter of "do things right and nothing will happen", and it has very vicious teeth on top of that. So from my PoV, the risk profile of GDPR is HUGE. If I'm running some pre-existing software stack written in the early 2000s, it simply doesn't have the necessary data provenance tracking that is needed to be GDPR compliant. For what it's worth, I make no money from things I run, not even on ads. Zilch. However, I've spent at least hours processing GDPR requests, and I have absolutely no idea if they are being done correctly, because I'm not a lawyer, and I do not have access to a lawyer. > What? Do you think only EU citizens have rights in the EU? I'm talking about representation in the sense of a democracy. I am part of the system in the U.S. - I can vote. I have no representation when it comes to laws made in the EU. The reverse applies too, but as far as I know there's nothing quite as scary as GDPR from the U.S. side.

How many examples of life-destroying fines do you have?

by Hamuko 5y ago

How many examples of life-destroying fines do you have?

jchw 5y ago

So basically, you’re in the “No, it’s fine — this will only ever get used against bad guys!” camp. We had 9/11 here in America and the BS that followed and I don’t humor this line of thinking. (Nor humour.)

Hamuko 5y ago
No, I'm in the "prove that the thing you are claiming to happen actually happens" camp.
- jchw 5y ago
  I’m not claiming something happened — do you understand how chilling effects work? The threat of potentially massive fines with very little legal bounds for not following regulations that individuals basically can’t follow means that people who want to follow the rules but aren’t big enough don’t play anymore.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    So no one's life has ever been ruined by the GDPR? But you're still sure that this will happen? What is this based on?
    - jchw 5y ago
      I can get fined between 0 and €20 million at any moment because I am an individual and have no means to fully understand GDPR nor hire a DPO for my stupid personal websites. I make no money in ads or otherwise, but I am still treated like Epic Games if I collect sign up emails or logs. I only still run this stuff now because I’ve been running it for over a decade. I can tell you right now I am hesitant to run websites anymore. If you don’t understand how “ambiguous threat of a fine” isn’t calmed by “it hasn’t happened yet,” I can’t help you. What if my site was politically controversial? Should I trust all EU governments to act responsibly and not take advantage of their power ever?
      - anoncake 5y ago
        If there is a real danger that EU gouvernments start abusing their power like that, why is it only Americans that are afraid of it? Not EU citizens, who actually are familiar with how their states behave?
        jchw 5y ago
        Clearly, nobody is afraid by it: I am getting buried insanely any time I criticize GDPR in any way. It is a thing you are not allowed to critique on HN. So I wouldn’t say americans are particularly more bothered by it. But why shouldn’t we be? I have no representation in EU law.
        anoncake 5y ago
        > Clearly, nobody is afraid by it: I am getting buried insanely any time I criticize GDPR in any way. It is a thing you are not allowed to critique on HN. Not if your criticisms are entirely unfounded and bordering on paranoia, no. > But why shouldn't we be? I have no representation in EU law. What? Do you think only EU citizens have rights in the EU?
        jchw 5y ago
        > Not if your criticisms are entirely unfounded and bordering on paranoia, no. I am not a lawyer and I do not have access to a lawyer. I can't afford it. Therefore, I have to assume that I simply do not have the expertise to understand GDPR fully. And unlike most laws, it is not a matter of "do things right and nothing will happen", and it has very vicious teeth on top of that. So from my PoV, the risk profile of GDPR is HUGE. If I'm running some pre-existing software stack written in the early 2000s, it simply doesn't have the necessary data provenance tracking that is needed to be GDPR compliant. For what it's worth, I make no money from things I run, not even on ads. Zilch. However, I've spent at least hours processing GDPR requests, and I have absolutely no idea if they are being done correctly, because I'm not a lawyer, and I do not have access to a lawyer. > What? Do you think only EU citizens have rights in the EU? I'm talking about representation in the sense of a democracy. I am part of the system in the U.S. - I can vote. I have no representation when it comes to laws made in the EU. The reverse applies too, but as far as I know there's nothing quite as scary as GDPR from the U.S. side.