6 ms·

Because my grandma is clueless and I give her an iPhone so she doesn’t install malware like she managed to on her Android phone

• johnchristopher 5y ago
  Could the guest mode on android or enterprise/fleet thingy be used to achieve that (preventing user from installing malware) ?
• celsoazevedo 5y ago
  It's weird that a clueless person was able to download and install a malware apk when by default Android forces you to go to your settings and allow apps to install other apps (the behaviour has changed over the years, but you always need to do something). Not to mention that Google Play Protect scans your apps and warns you if it finds something sketchy. In any case and as much as I like my own clueless grandma, I don't think my Android phone should only allow me to use the play store or that windows/macos/linux should stop me from installing Steam just because she's clueless about tech.
  • dan-robertson 5y ago
    What’s your argument here, that the GP is lying or that their grandmother wanted the malware or something else? I find it very easy to believe that some malware vendor managed to trick someone into enabling things in settings. I would also believe that malware was just sitting in the play store[1] and available to install the normal way. [1] same goes for the App Store.
    • celsoazevedo 5y ago
      His grandmother already has an iPhone, so it's unlikely that she was using Android 10 or 11 (which made it fairly easy to install an apk file). Until Android 9 you had to go through some menus and allow sideloading, something that "clueless" people usually don't do. It's more likely that the "malware" came from an app installed via the Play Store. Three or so years ago I was asked by someone to see if there was a virus on their phone. The "virus" was in fact a religious app, installed via the official store, which was opening a popup with ads every few hours. Now, I could be wrong and it's possible that his grandma actually sideloaded an apk. If she did, I still think that you should be able to install an app that isn't allowed by Apple on their store, after all they block more than just malware: apps with free licenses, some VPN apps in some countries, torrent apps without any illegal content in it, etc. If Apple wants to continue on this path, hopefully they'll go a step further and also remove the web browser and the ability to receive calls. Scam calls are a problem after all and we don't want people to send all their savings to "Microsoft" or "Amazon".
      • BigJono 5y ago
        Not only that but I don't see how this problem isn't just trivially solved by putting an optional "parental" control on the setting. God forbid someone has to take 5 seconds to set a phone up for their mum.
  • sircastor 5y ago
    Never underestimate a malware makers ability to instruct a user to do something. Out for that matter a users ability to get themselves into trouble.
    • celsoazevedo 5y ago
      True, but we probably don't want to remove the ability to receive calls just because users might receive a scam call or the browser just because it can be used to trick someone to give their information. It's the same with apps, especially when Apple bans more than just apps with malware.
      • tshaddox 5y ago
        Actually I definitely do want to A) make it more difficult for spam callers to exist and B) make it more difficult for people to be fooled by them.
        • celsoazevedo 5y ago
          The problem with an App Store-like approach to that problem is that Apple would control who could call you and not give you the option to receive calls from someone they don't like. I'm not against security or privacy. My problem is not having a way to bypass the App Store and what they allow (they ban more than just malware) when I want to install something. I use Android for this reason. As soon macOS becomes like iOS, I'm out too.
          • jsjohnst 5y ago
            > My problem is not having a way to bypass the App Store The ability to bypass the App Store for yourself exists and has for a long time. The process might not be to your liking, but let’s stop pretending that you have no choice if you want to use iOS but not go through the App Store.
            • celsoazevedo 5y ago
  • toast0 5y ago
    Current behavior on downloading an apk makes it pretty easy, IIRC it says you need to set a setting, has a (working) deeplink to the setting, and when you set the setting it prompts you to finish installing. It's really not that hard anymore. Google Play Protect then yells at you about the app you just installed (but maybe that was because I was installing rooting apps). The best solution to someone installing garbage apps would be a system with an app whitelist managed by a trusted person off the phone. And no browser or incoming phone calls.
  • tshaddox 5y ago
    Why is that weird? Facebook has to put warnings in the browser console to prevent people from pasting malicious code that some viral post said would give them super powers on Facebook. Obviously these warnings aren’t for people who understand developer tools and internet security. They’re there because malicious people trick other people into running malicious code.
    • mdoms 5y ago
      It's not weird because it didn't happen.
      • wizzwizz4 5y ago
        It's actually happened more than once. Perhaps the person you were replying to was lying; doesn't make their point valid, because it has actually happened. People can follow the most complicated step by step instructions if they're explained clearly enough, by someone they feel they don't need to trust, and there's an incentive to follow them.
        • Aeolun 5y ago
          If grandma ignores my advice and installs the unsafe app despite the steadily more large and screaming warnings doesn’t that become individual responsibility at some point?
          • retsibsi 5y ago
            But what do you want to ensure: that grandma only installs malware on her phone via mistakes she is individually responsible for, or that she doesn't install malware on her phone? Maybe for the abstract 'grandma' you would take the first option. But for someone you personally care about, you're not going to choose the option that predictably ends with her being harmed, even if it will be her own fault when it happens.
            • Aeolun 5y ago
  • kec 5y ago
    It’s not really weird at all. When a dialog pops up while a user is trying to do something like install an app 90% of users will blindly click “ok” in order to get on with it.
    • celsoazevedo 5y ago
      Neither the user or a website/app can install an apk file on Android by just clicking "OK".
      • kec 5y ago
        This extends to any number of dialogs standing between the user and their goal. If a user wants to install an application they will not be deterred by warnings because they fundamentally don't care - they've already decided they want this app.
  • paulmd 5y ago
    It's not exactly difficult to walk users through the process - Epic Games already makes you bypass all the warnings if you want to install fortnite. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-fortnite-on-android https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-fortnite-on-andro... Once it becomes normalized for users to click through the warnings, they become meaningless and powerless, just like any warning.
• wayneftw 5y ago
  And Apple protecting her from that is the only solution? I don't think so... With just a tiny bit of imagination I'm sure we can come up with something which will work. Here's an idea: Let Apple sell Apple-locked and unlocked iPhones. It can work just like carrier locking. Buy one unlocked, maybe pay a little extra, and you can have 3rd party app stores. That took me a minute to come up with. I am absolutely positive that there are many other degrees of options between full-control by Apple and full-control by End-user. I get it though... people who like Apple aren't very appreciative of having options.
  • hboon 5y ago
    I know you mean well. But it’s ironic that with the first iPhones, Apple was combating the tight gripe of carriers, especially in the US on consumer control.
    • CamperBob2 5y ago
      Apple's corporate charter is pretty simple: keep the girl with the hammer from getting too close to the screen. Yes, they won important victories against the cellular carriers -- victories that we all continue to benefit from -- but let's not kid ourselves regarding why they fought those battles in the first place. They didn't just set out to defeat the incumbent gatekeepers, they set out to become them.
  • shadowgovt 5y ago
    There's a thing called "choice paralysis" that Apple minimizes as a value-add. My technically-savvy associates, I suggest an Android to (especially if they want to dabble in mobile development themselves). For my family that just wants a phone that works, I suggest iPhone. The ecosystem tends to have a single right way to do any given task, which is a boon when they just want it to work without having to think about details.
  • d3nj4l 5y ago
    > Let Apple sell Apple-locked and unlocked iPhones. It can work just like carrier locking. Buy one unlocked, maybe pay a little extra But that won't work for Epic, or for any competitor. Epic wants access to every iPhone customer, not just the ones who paid extra to add third party app stores. Heck, you don't even have to pay extra to sideload apps on Android, but they still lost a ton of people when Google kicked them out of the Play Store.
• simion314 5y ago
  Fuck, Time said that 2 years old are using iOS so , "Great news, the lowest common denominator will be lowered from grandma to toddlers"
• akudha 5y ago
  So the solution is to force majority of the population to use Apple store, to protect minority of the population who aren't tech savvy? If Apple allowed other stores, before a user can install an app from non-Apple store, iOS can show a message saying the app is not from Apple's holy store and that it is users responsibility to make sure the app is trustworthy? This won't be pretty, but at least it is a compromise. They want their 30% cut and they want to tightly control everything. That is the only true, logical reason. Everything else is a flimsy excuse
  • DangitBobby 5y ago
    But then Epic will have detailed instructions on how to sideload apps, and if enough apps do this it will be common practice for users to do so. If users are trained to do this by safe apps, they won't be on the lookout for the malware that does the same thing.
    • Seattle3503 5y ago
      Maybe a wacky idea, but what if Apple required you to go to an Apple store to sideload a new app or app store. That way the person at the store can stop really stupid mistakes.
      • wizzwizz4 5y ago
        They already basically do; they require you to go to the digital equivalent and ask Apple pretty please for a signature.
  • fastaguy88 5y ago
    Pretty hard to know who the minority is in this case. Based on other HN opinions about Apple products, there seems to be a consensus that Apple customers are mostly not tech savvy. If they were, they wouldn’t buy Apple stuff.
    • gjsman-1000 5y ago
      Even though this is a stereotype not grounded in reality and there are plenty of techie people who buy Apple products.
• stjohnswarts 5y ago
  So your Grandma installed apks? I find that hard to believe. The google store has a slightly worse history for malware than the Apple Store but not that much worse, especially relative to PC malware. Also anecdotes generally don't prove much in the greater scheme of "Android is a malware platform and your grandmother is going to get a virus"
  • paulmd 5y ago
    why is that hard to believe? literal children do it to get fortnite. any site that is trying to get you to sideload will have convenient instructions for how to do it. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-fortnite-on-android https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-fortnite-on-andro...