6 ms·

> I've never had a fake product Are you really certain about that? The fakes are so good sometimes I don't notice for a year or two. There are so many ways of

> I've never had a fake product Are you really certain about that? The fakes are so good sometimes I don't notice for a year or two. There are so many ways of faking different products, and the fakers are getting really really really good at making the product seem real. Have you done a few hours of searching and testing for everything you've bought? This is what it takes, IMO, to feel some level of confidence in an Amazon (US) product being 'real'. The levels of suspicion never really go away either - since I've been duped by probably a dozen products at least, that have turned out to be fake, I'm highly suspicious of any Amazon purchase. It's been a couple years since I bought anything from there. Too much stress worrying about authenticity to make it worth it.

cameronh90 5y ago
As certain as I can be of any store purchase. Nothing I've bought from Amazon has been substandard quality and it's pretty much all lasted as well as I'd expect. I've had much better luck with Amazon than with local stores. If the fakes are literally indistinguishable, it's possible I've had some, but then I guess it makes little difference to me. As far as research goes, if it's expensive, I put some research in if it's a product or brand I've never used before, but I never specifically look to see if it's a fake product on Amazon. For reference, I spend about £5k a year at Amazon UK. Nearly all my experiences have been positive apart from the occasional damage in transit.
- OJFord 5y ago
  I'm with you on never having had a fake (at least, echo your 'sure as I could ever be') - closest was a Marantz microphone that curiously identifies as a Blue Snowball, but I suspect they're probably just both farmed out to the same place and got mixed up or it always says Blue, or they're exactly the same underneath the shell. They're in the same price bracket anyway so not really my loss or any reason to fake that. What I have found though is that the quality of search results, the experience of using the site, has seriously deteriorated in the last two or three years. It's like AliExpress or eBay now. I used to read other countries' Amazon users (e.g. .com) complain about this and think what are you talking about it's great, but yeah, now... I still get as good stuff from Amazon because that's what I buy, I just have to wade through a lot of crap to get it.
  - Retric 5y ago
    > Marantz microphone that curiously identifies as a Blue Snowball If you don’t consider that a sign of a fake product, I don’t think you’re being objective. Fake products put significant effort into looking like real products, many times you need to take them apart to find the differences.
    - mitchdoogle 5y ago
      Some people just aren't concerned with brand names. If it looks and works like it's supposed to, and it didn't cost any more money, then what's the problem?
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Certainly if it's 'really' a Blue Snowball rather than a Marantz MPM-1000U, I don't care, they're in the same price bracket from two respected brands. (I only chose between them on the basis that the Snowball was slightly more expensive at the time I ordered and aesthetically I preferred the Marantz. So really, if it were internally a Snowball and that was different, it would be a win?) To be fair though it's not as clear as I was expecting, but I'm no expert so not really set up to do any proper testing, the room its in is probably acoustically awful anyway, etc. It's certainly not awful even if it isn't what it says it is, it's several steps up from the dirt cheap 'Tonor' branded and unashemedly 'Chinesium' thing I used before it. The great thing about Amazon though is that after this thread I contacted support (way out of return period) and they've shipped a replacement. I'll see if it's the same; if it is, of course that doesn't prove anything, but I'll be very interested if it does seem (more - still wouldn't know for sure of course) real to see what the differences are in packaging/construction/printing etc.
        OJFord 5y ago
        Just to follow up on that, replacement arrived, ~this one identifies as 'USB Microphone'. Seems otherwise~ [edit: I mis-remembered which way around it was, they're both 'USB Microphone' on macOS, and both 'Blue Snowball' on Linux] identical, I think my assumption is still that both products are manufactured (genuinely) by the same factory, and the design even perhaps farmed out so they really are identical on the inside, but either way just flashed with the wrong ID. Both of these two are identical inside too, same board revision even. (And not every penny pinched like you would if you were faking - gloss black solder mask, as well as on a second PCB whose only job is keeping wires tidy and displaying a silk screened revision number.) [edit: Further to edit above, it's actually 'C-Media Electronics, Inc. Blue Snowball', and the main chip is this one: https://www.cmedia.com.tw/applications/microphone/CM6327A https://www.cmedia.com.tw/applications/microphone/CM6327A so presumably both microphones use it and the same assembly house (whether the same design or not) and the EEPROMs' manufacturer/product strings are either getting mixed up or all Blue, whether by mistake or assembler realised they could get paid double to flash once.]
- open-source-ux 5y ago
  I use Amazon UK and have had very mixed experiences with finding and purchasing goods. The site is increasingly swamped with low-quality goods sourced from AliBaba or AliExpress. This is easily verified by searching for a item and seeing the same product sold under a different "brand name" (with the same generic product photos). These "drop-shipping" businesses dominate many product categories. Even with books, Amazon's print-on-demand service means that search results are swamped with "low-content or no content" titles (essentially notebooks, diaries, planners etc). These "no content" titles often slap an unrelated title on the cover for what is simply a empty notebook (e.g. "JavaScript notebook"). The keyword in the title is there to gain a higher position in Amazon's broken search. The things described above are easily discovered online. YouTube has hundreds of "drop-shipping" videos and videos of publishing "no content" books. These videos are full of advice on how to manipulate Amazon listings using various techniques. Quite simply, Amazon is now an untamed mess of an online store. But with enough customers (and growing) it is unlikely anything will change.
the-dude 5y ago
If the fake is almost real, does it really matter?
- p49k 5y ago
  It definitely matters. Watch some of the teardowns of power adapters on YouTube: they look and work almost identically and you’d likely never tell the difference, but one is much more likely to set your house on fire if it malfunctions.
  - cik 5y ago
    Admittedly one could argue that this is the reason we have insurance. I don't know that my Apple X won't light my house on fire, as opposed to my knock off Snapple X.
    - ilkan 5y ago
      That's what the UL or CE mark is for
      - the-dude 5y ago
        Are you aware that at least CE is 'self certification' ? Only when a case goes to court, it will be determined if the certification was rightful or not.
      - wl 5y ago
        Too bad so many of those marks are fake on Amazon.
      - cik 5y ago
        Unfortunately I can't comment below this point, in the thread I started. You're making the point I'm making. While I don't (to the best of my knowledge) purchase counterfeit items, I don't pretend that certification is anything other than certification. Hopefully certification comes with standards, and aren't self-reporting... but that's not always the case.
petee 5y ago
I just wanted to add to this --fakes can be near perfect in appearance. A number of years ago Black Diamond had to put out an advisory on one of their pieces of mountain climbing gear because someone was making an exact replica of their climbing hardware...but with substandard metal. Everything matched, with laser cut serial numbers and everything. The only way they could ensure it was real was by material testing, or known purchase from an authorized dealer. Years ago there was a decent chance amazon had the real thing, but now I'd avoid anything that can potentially kill you
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Sounds like they outsourced their production and their producer ran extra shifts on the side. Or whomever setup their plant setup an extra plant on the side. Though I increasingly suspect any bad batch gets labelled as a counterfeit to avoid liability.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Does it matter if it works for a year or two? While meanwhile in the age of planned obsolescence the originals don't work any longer, because of 'warranty period optimised design', or other artificial factors like no (security)-updates, for instance.

cameronh90 5y ago

As certain as I can be of any store purchase. Nothing I've bought from Amazon has been substandard quality and it's pretty much all lasted as well as I'd expect. I've had much better luck with Amazon than with local stores. If the fakes are literally indistinguishable, it's possible I've had some, but then I guess it makes little difference to me. As far as research goes, if it's expensive, I put some research in if it's a product or brand I've never used before, but I never specifically look to see if it's a fake product on Amazon. For reference, I spend about £5k a year at Amazon UK. Nearly all my experiences have been positive apart from the occasional damage in transit.

OJFord 5y ago
I'm with you on never having had a fake (at least, echo your 'sure as I could ever be') - closest was a Marantz microphone that curiously identifies as a Blue Snowball, but I suspect they're probably just both farmed out to the same place and got mixed up or it always says Blue, or they're exactly the same underneath the shell. They're in the same price bracket anyway so not really my loss or any reason to fake that. What I have found though is that the quality of search results, the experience of using the site, has seriously deteriorated in the last two or three years. It's like AliExpress or eBay now. I used to read other countries' Amazon users (e.g. .com) complain about this and think what are you talking about it's great, but yeah, now... I still get as good stuff from Amazon because that's what I buy, I just have to wade through a lot of crap to get it.
- Retric 5y ago
  > Marantz microphone that curiously identifies as a Blue Snowball If you don’t consider that a sign of a fake product, I don’t think you’re being objective. Fake products put significant effort into looking like real products, many times you need to take them apart to find the differences.
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    Some people just aren't concerned with brand names. If it looks and works like it's supposed to, and it didn't cost any more money, then what's the problem?
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Certainly if it's 'really' a Blue Snowball rather than a Marantz MPM-1000U, I don't care, they're in the same price bracket from two respected brands. (I only chose between them on the basis that the Snowball was slightly more expensive at the time I ordered and aesthetically I preferred the Marantz. So really, if it were internally a Snowball and that was different, it would be a win?) To be fair though it's not as clear as I was expecting, but I'm no expert so not really set up to do any proper testing, the room its in is probably acoustically awful anyway, etc. It's certainly not awful even if it isn't what it says it is, it's several steps up from the dirt cheap 'Tonor' branded and unashemedly 'Chinesium' thing I used before it. The great thing about Amazon though is that after this thread I contacted support (way out of return period) and they've shipped a replacement. I'll see if it's the same; if it is, of course that doesn't prove anything, but I'll be very interested if it does seem (more - still wouldn't know for sure of course) real to see what the differences are in packaging/construction/printing etc.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Just to follow up on that, replacement arrived, ~this one identifies as 'USB Microphone'. Seems otherwise~ [edit: I mis-remembered which way around it was, they're both 'USB Microphone' on macOS, and both 'Blue Snowball' on Linux] identical, I think my assumption is still that both products are manufactured (genuinely) by the same factory, and the design even perhaps farmed out so they really are identical on the inside, but either way just flashed with the wrong ID. Both of these two are identical inside too, same board revision even. (And not every penny pinched like you would if you were faking - gloss black solder mask, as well as on a second PCB whose only job is keeping wires tidy and displaying a silk screened revision number.) [edit: Further to edit above, it's actually 'C-Media Electronics, Inc. Blue Snowball', and the main chip is this one: https://www.cmedia.com.tw/applications/microphone/CM6327A https://www.cmedia.com.tw/applications/microphone/CM6327A so presumably both microphones use it and the same assembly house (whether the same design or not) and the EEPROMs' manufacturer/product strings are either getting mixed up or all Blue, whether by mistake or assembler realised they could get paid double to flash once.]
open-source-ux 5y ago
I use Amazon UK and have had very mixed experiences with finding and purchasing goods. The site is increasingly swamped with low-quality goods sourced from AliBaba or AliExpress. This is easily verified by searching for a item and seeing the same product sold under a different "brand name" (with the same generic product photos). These "drop-shipping" businesses dominate many product categories. Even with books, Amazon's print-on-demand service means that search results are swamped with "low-content or no content" titles (essentially notebooks, diaries, planners etc). These "no content" titles often slap an unrelated title on the cover for what is simply a empty notebook (e.g. "JavaScript notebook"). The keyword in the title is there to gain a higher position in Amazon's broken search. The things described above are easily discovered online. YouTube has hundreds of "drop-shipping" videos and videos of publishing "no content" books. These videos are full of advice on how to manipulate Amazon listings using various techniques. Quite simply, Amazon is now an untamed mess of an online store. But with enough customers (and growing) it is unlikely anything will change.

the-dude 5y ago

If the fake is almost real, does it really matter?

p49k 5y ago
It definitely matters. Watch some of the teardowns of power adapters on YouTube: they look and work almost identically and you’d likely never tell the difference, but one is much more likely to set your house on fire if it malfunctions.
- cik 5y ago
  Admittedly one could argue that this is the reason we have insurance. I don't know that my Apple X won't light my house on fire, as opposed to my knock off Snapple X.
  - ilkan 5y ago
    That's what the UL or CE mark is for
    - the-dude 5y ago
      Are you aware that at least CE is 'self certification' ? Only when a case goes to court, it will be determined if the certification was rightful or not.
    - wl 5y ago
      Too bad so many of those marks are fake on Amazon.
    - cik 5y ago
      Unfortunately I can't comment below this point, in the thread I started. You're making the point I'm making. While I don't (to the best of my knowledge) purchase counterfeit items, I don't pretend that certification is anything other than certification. Hopefully certification comes with standards, and aren't self-reporting... but that's not always the case.

petee 5y ago

I just wanted to add to this --fakes can be near perfect in appearance. A number of years ago Black Diamond had to put out an advisory on one of their pieces of mountain climbing gear because someone was making an exact replica of their climbing hardware...but with substandard metal. Everything matched, with laser cut serial numbers and everything. The only way they could ensure it was real was by material testing, or known purchase from an authorized dealer. Years ago there was a decent chance amazon had the real thing, but now I'd avoid anything that can potentially kill you

Scoundreller 5y ago
Sounds like they outsourced their production and their producer ran extra shifts on the side. Or whomever setup their plant setup an extra plant on the side. Though I increasingly suspect any bad batch gets labelled as a counterfeit to avoid liability.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

Does it matter if it works for a year or two? While meanwhile in the age of planned obsolescence the originals don't work any longer, because of 'warranty period optimised design', or other artificial factors like no (security)-updates, for instance.