6 ms·

Poverty is such a relative thing. There are some things on this list that, while I can understand how they are hallmarks of poverty in the US, are completely al

Poverty is such a relative thing. There are some things on this list that, while I can understand how they are hallmarks of poverty in the US, are completely alien to what's considered to be poverty where I am from (a car? Buying cereal?) Then again maybe we are all just horrifically poor here apart from a select few. Western indices certainly seem to think so.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
It is different: But you can basically replace "car" with transportation (poor people have issues affording transportation in general: For most of the US, this means you must have a car to even go to work) and Cereal with "whatever is cheap and easy to make for breakfast, only not quite enough". In some areas, everyone is horrifically poor. In the US, however, it has been painfully obvious in every single place that I've lived that not everyone is horrifically poor and has a panic attack over half of a dollar spent on some food of better quality.
cgriswald 5y ago
Cars are an interesting case. If I could have lived where I lived, but without needing a car, I wouldn’t have been poor. A car isn’t a luxury in a place designed for cars, but a burden. You’re constantly told driving is a “privilege”, but you can’t go to work without it and maybe not the grocery either. You’re worried that it will break down because not only will you not get to work (and maybe get fired) and don’t know how you will repair or replace it, but because you know you can’t even pay the tow truck company to drag it off the road. Tires cost money so you drive on bald tires until you literally can’t, white-knuckling it on ice-covered roads. Gas prices swing widely so you’re always watching and planning can be tough. You have to choose between insurance you can’t really afford and breaking the law. Since you use cheap gas without additives you fail the smog test and have to take your car to a shop (which you worry may rip you off) where they will guess at the problem, but if it doesn’t work you have to repeat the process once more before, for a fee, you can be exempted. Cars were a massive source of anxiety for me when I was poor. Instead of worrying about shelter and food, I had to worry about a car, shelter, and food; and basically in that order.
Aeolun 5y ago
To be fair, when I was a student, functional cars could be had for as little as €250, and I think often even less. Not sure why, I guess they were so old nobody wanted them anymore? I had friends get two of the same car, so they could cannibalize the second for parts for the first.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Poverty is such a relative thing. I ran across an anecdote where it was found that people would rather make $80K/year in a neighbourhood where everyone else made $70K, rather than make $90K where everyone else made $100K.
- hackflip 5y ago
  If the extra 10k is only 6k post-tax, and the cost of living increases by more than 6k between the 70k neighborhood and the 100k neighborhood, it can sometimes be the financially rational decision.
  - samatman 5y ago
    Exactly so. At least in the US, most of the mandatory budget goes to "the neighborhood" in the form of rent or mortgage, and people know this. Especially when we're talking about small numbers percent-wise, the intuition that it's better to be earning slightly more than your neighbors, rather than slightly less, is accurate. It translates to more discretionary income, more savings, more optionality.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

It is different: But you can basically replace "car" with transportation (poor people have issues affording transportation in general: For most of the US, this means you must have a car to even go to work) and Cereal with "whatever is cheap and easy to make for breakfast, only not quite enough". In some areas, everyone is horrifically poor. In the US, however, it has been painfully obvious in every single place that I've lived that not everyone is horrifically poor and has a panic attack over half of a dollar spent on some food of better quality.

cgriswald 5y ago

Cars are an interesting case. If I could have lived where I lived, but without needing a car, I wouldn’t have been poor. A car isn’t a luxury in a place designed for cars, but a burden. You’re constantly told driving is a “privilege”, but you can’t go to work without it and maybe not the grocery either. You’re worried that it will break down because not only will you not get to work (and maybe get fired) and don’t know how you will repair or replace it, but because you know you can’t even pay the tow truck company to drag it off the road. Tires cost money so you drive on bald tires until you literally can’t, white-knuckling it on ice-covered roads. Gas prices swing widely so you’re always watching and planning can be tough. You have to choose between insurance you can’t really afford and breaking the law. Since you use cheap gas without additives you fail the smog test and have to take your car to a shop (which you worry may rip you off) where they will guess at the problem, but if it doesn’t work you have to repeat the process once more before, for a fee, you can be exempted. Cars were a massive source of anxiety for me when I was poor. Instead of worrying about shelter and food, I had to worry about a car, shelter, and food; and basically in that order.

Aeolun 5y ago

To be fair, when I was a student, functional cars could be had for as little as €250, and I think often even less. Not sure why, I guess they were so old nobody wanted them anymore? I had friends get two of the same car, so they could cannibalize the second for parts for the first.

throw0101a 5y ago

> Poverty is such a relative thing. I ran across an anecdote where it was found that people would rather make $80K/year in a neighbourhood where everyone else made $70K, rather than make $90K where everyone else made $100K.

hackflip 5y ago
If the extra 10k is only 6k post-tax, and the cost of living increases by more than 6k between the 70k neighborhood and the 100k neighborhood, it can sometimes be the financially rational decision.
- samatman 5y ago
  Exactly so. At least in the US, most of the mandatory budget goes to "the neighborhood" in the form of rent or mortgage, and people know this. Especially when we're talking about small numbers percent-wise, the intuition that it's better to be earning slightly more than your neighbors, rather than slightly less, is accurate. It translates to more discretionary income, more savings, more optionality.