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"not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations" This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda

"not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations" This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. I'm fortunate that I've worked in a rather politically balanced industry which naturally turns out to be apolitical as a consequence of mere demographics.

globular-toast 5y ago
That's exactly what it's like. I've not seen it put like this before, but anxiety inducing is just right, and yes, it is abusive. Take the letter people, for example. They will ridicule people for not understanding the difference between G and Q, for example. Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. Then you have the pronoun people who tell us anyone can choose any set of pronouns they like. They tell it's easy to relearn your native language and remember a set of pronouns for each and every person you interact with, from a basically infinite set of combinations. I'm reminded of the secret languages children invent. But these are now adults doing it, at work. It's especially difficult for older people to change the language they use and can make them feel thoroughly alienated.
- throwaway346434 5y ago
  Seriously? You know so many trans, agender, etc folks that have adopted different pronouns than what they had at birth that YOU are overwhelmed and are now the victim in some way? And the people who have made choices about identity are inventing a secret language like children? Reflect a little bit on your outlook before you join a discussion, for goodness sake.
  - whatthesmack 5y ago
    Great way to shutdown an argument without contributing anything. Shame someone for not thinking like you do. I feel like I am the victim if I'm the person considered to be "in the wrong" because I won't use this new language other people are creating and recreating all the time. I didn't have to worry about compelled speech like that 10 years ago.
    - nwsm 5y ago
      > I didn't have to worry about compelled speech like that 10 years ago. Imagine that- society has changed in 10 years. I'm sorry you can't be arsed
- IntelMiner 5y ago
  "The letter people" You mean LGBT+? Because dang that's an incredibly insulting way to completely dismiss everyone who isn't straight then
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    No, I mean the people who identify as a letter and scald you if you don't know what their letter means. I have no idea what half of those letters mean or whether it means gay or straight (the T could definitely be straight, I know that much). I've also known plenty of gay people over the years who haven't ever mentioned these letters so it's nothing to do with that.
    - gryfft 5y ago
      I have scoured the farthest, deepest reaches of the Leftist Web to retrieve the lost scrolls containing the arcane encoding of this horrifying acronym: L: Lesbian (This means women who like women.) G: Gay (This means men who like men.) B: Bisexual. This means women and men who like both women and men. T: Trans. This means you do not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. Q: Queer. This means you do not identify as straight but don't feel like you necessarily fit into just one of the other buckets all of the time. Maybe you don't feel particularly like a man or a woman, or you don't feel like masculinity or femininity really even come into play in your sexuality. I: Intersex. Some people are born with sex organs that don't look like the venerable "man/woman" anatomy charts. As it turns out they are still living breathing people. A: Asexual. Some people do not feel sexual attraction toward other human beings. As it turns out they are still living breathing people. +: Sometimes people feel like they fall somewhere on a spectrum of the above. Sometimes people using the acronym intend to include allies. Sometimes people just haven't figured out their sexuality yet exactly, they just know 'one man and one woman' isn't it. LGBTQIA+. It's not alphabet soup, it's not a joke, appending BBQ isn't clever. It's just lesbians, gay men, bi people, trans people, queer people, intersex people, asexual people, and allies or people who are still having trouble categorizing themselves and how they feel. Now you know all the letters. It didn't even use up the whole alphabet.
- antifa 5y ago
  > They tell it's easy to relearn your native language It's absolutely the opposite of "relearning" in relative complexity/difficulty. > remember a set of pronouns for each and every person you interact with, from a basically infinite set of combinations. I've literally never met a person of alternative pronouns in real life (both the "unintuitive" variety and the "made up" variety), surely you are exaggerating with unreasonable hyperbole. > Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. I've gotten this constantly my entire life, no matter how obscure or unimportant the information, more often sports and non political things than politics.
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    > I've literally never met a person of alternative pronouns in real life (both the "unintuitive" variety and the "made up" variety), surely you are exaggerating with unreasonable hyperbole. I have. But it's not just the ones with alternative pronouns. Some of them have standard pronouns but still sign their email with them at the end. The implication is I shouldn't assume their pronouns and they can change them at any time. > I've gotten this constantly my entire life, no matter how obscure or unimportant the information, more often sports and non political things than politics. At work? Has your career ever been affected by your lack of knowledge about snooker?
  - alchemst 5y ago
    Yes, but historically it was a joke, or surprise. Now it's a moral failing.
- dang 5y ago
  If you keep taking HN threads further into ideological flamewar, we're going to have to ban you again. Would you please stop? In case it's helpful: not all your comments do this, nor even all your comments on divisive topics. When you stick to describing your personal experience, for example, it's fine. But when you call names, denounce others, or pour snark and vitriol, those things are not fine—and you've done a ton of that on HN. That's not cool! We probably would have re-banned you by now, except I imagine I see signs of improvement here and there. Please improve further. It's not in your interest to make this place nastier; that's guaranteed to make it less interesting, and the odds of it being interesting are the only reason for any of us to come here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. That's society in general, not just work. https://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as-you-like-but-behave.html https://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as...
Moodles 5y ago
> This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. Yeah, 100%. Were you in California last summer? “Silence is violence” was the phrase of the day. I’ve got about a gazillion stories from living in San Francisco for three years.
- ne0flex 5y ago
  I'm curious if you could share some of your stories. Since last year, I've stopped using social media like FB. When the summer came around, my friends were posting political stuff online and noticed I wasn't interacting with it. My phone would then blow up with messages along the theme of: "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?".
  - Moodles 5y ago
    Dude, get new friends. They sound horrible. So many stories. My skip level manager had me in a 1-on-1 once and said something along the lines: “you probably got the green card because Trump likes your demographic”. (I have an EB-1 extraordinary ability green card, and I assume they were talking about me being straight and white). What the fuck am I supposed to say there? Was absolutely speechless. Moments like that are basically shit tests: “are you one of us?” Pretty sure I failed that test. Oh well. One time quite recently I shared a Joe Rogan podcast on slack (Moxie from Signal was on there). I then went to sleep. Man, when I woke up the thread was popping with “I refuse to click on this link”, “Joe Rogan is a transphobe”. Someone posting stories about Joe Rogan being friends with Alex Jones and how problematic that is. Nothing to do with the actual podcast episode with Moxie. If anything, it was hilariously ironic because they were talking about how Signal provides privacy for people and how, if you don’t have privacy, people will scrutinise everything you’ve ever said and find ways to #cancel you. Just bizarre. I couldn’t even be bothered to respond. Honestly most stories at work are just the accumulation of tiny comments here and there. Just the odd joke about conservatives or the implicit assumption you agree with them. One time some girl at work told me “I can tell you’re not as liberal as us”. I asked her why, because I definitely wasn’t but I also definitely didn’t bother arguing at work. She said she could just tell by my vibe. I mean it’s true. Fair play to her I guess.

globular-toast 5y ago

That's exactly what it's like. I've not seen it put like this before, but anxiety inducing is just right, and yes, it is abusive. Take the letter people, for example. They will ridicule people for not understanding the difference between G and Q, for example. Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. Then you have the pronoun people who tell us anyone can choose any set of pronouns they like. They tell it's easy to relearn your native language and remember a set of pronouns for each and every person you interact with, from a basically infinite set of combinations. I'm reminded of the secret languages children invent. But these are now adults doing it, at work. It's especially difficult for older people to change the language they use and can make them feel thoroughly alienated.

throwaway346434 5y ago
Seriously? You know so many trans, agender, etc folks that have adopted different pronouns than what they had at birth that YOU are overwhelmed and are now the victim in some way? And the people who have made choices about identity are inventing a secret language like children? Reflect a little bit on your outlook before you join a discussion, for goodness sake.
- whatthesmack 5y ago
  Great way to shutdown an argument without contributing anything. Shame someone for not thinking like you do. I feel like I am the victim if I'm the person considered to be "in the wrong" because I won't use this new language other people are creating and recreating all the time. I didn't have to worry about compelled speech like that 10 years ago.
  - nwsm 5y ago
    > I didn't have to worry about compelled speech like that 10 years ago. Imagine that- society has changed in 10 years. I'm sorry you can't be arsed
IntelMiner 5y ago
"The letter people" You mean LGBT+? Because dang that's an incredibly insulting way to completely dismiss everyone who isn't straight then
- globular-toast 5y ago
  No, I mean the people who identify as a letter and scald you if you don't know what their letter means. I have no idea what half of those letters mean or whether it means gay or straight (the T could definitely be straight, I know that much). I've also known plenty of gay people over the years who haven't ever mentioned these letters so it's nothing to do with that.
  - gryfft 5y ago
    I have scoured the farthest, deepest reaches of the Leftist Web to retrieve the lost scrolls containing the arcane encoding of this horrifying acronym: L: Lesbian (This means women who like women.) G: Gay (This means men who like men.) B: Bisexual. This means women and men who like both women and men. T: Trans. This means you do not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. Q: Queer. This means you do not identify as straight but don't feel like you necessarily fit into just one of the other buckets all of the time. Maybe you don't feel particularly like a man or a woman, or you don't feel like masculinity or femininity really even come into play in your sexuality. I: Intersex. Some people are born with sex organs that don't look like the venerable "man/woman" anatomy charts. As it turns out they are still living breathing people. A: Asexual. Some people do not feel sexual attraction toward other human beings. As it turns out they are still living breathing people. +: Sometimes people feel like they fall somewhere on a spectrum of the above. Sometimes people using the acronym intend to include allies. Sometimes people just haven't figured out their sexuality yet exactly, they just know 'one man and one woman' isn't it. LGBTQIA+. It's not alphabet soup, it's not a joke, appending BBQ isn't clever. It's just lesbians, gay men, bi people, trans people, queer people, intersex people, asexual people, and allies or people who are still having trouble categorizing themselves and how they feel. Now you know all the letters. It didn't even use up the whole alphabet.
antifa 5y ago
> They tell it's easy to relearn your native language It's absolutely the opposite of "relearning" in relative complexity/difficulty. > remember a set of pronouns for each and every person you interact with, from a basically infinite set of combinations. I've literally never met a person of alternative pronouns in real life (both the "unintuitive" variety and the "made up" variety), surely you are exaggerating with unreasonable hyperbole. > Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. I've gotten this constantly my entire life, no matter how obscure or unimportant the information, more often sports and non political things than politics.
- globular-toast 5y ago
  > I've literally never met a person of alternative pronouns in real life (both the "unintuitive" variety and the "made up" variety), surely you are exaggerating with unreasonable hyperbole. I have. But it's not just the ones with alternative pronouns. Some of them have standard pronouns but still sign their email with them at the end. The implication is I shouldn't assume their pronouns and they can change them at any time. > I've gotten this constantly my entire life, no matter how obscure or unimportant the information, more often sports and non political things than politics. At work? Has your career ever been affected by your lack of knowledge about snooker?
- alchemst 5y ago
  Yes, but historically it was a joke, or surprise. Now it's a moral failing.
dang 5y ago
If you keep taking HN threads further into ideological flamewar, we're going to have to ban you again. Would you please stop? In case it's helpful: not all your comments do this, nor even all your comments on divisive topics. When you stick to describing your personal experience, for example, it's fine. But when you call names, denounce others, or pour snark and vitriol, those things are not fine—and you've done a ton of that on HN. That's not cool! We probably would have re-banned you by now, except I imagine I see signs of improvement here and there. Please improve further. It's not in your interest to make this place nastier; that's guaranteed to make it less interesting, and the odds of it being interesting are the only reason for any of us to come here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. That's society in general, not just work. https://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as-you-like-but-behave.html https://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as...

Moodles 5y ago

> This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. Yeah, 100%. Were you in California last summer? “Silence is violence” was the phrase of the day. I’ve got about a gazillion stories from living in San Francisco for three years.

ne0flex 5y ago
I'm curious if you could share some of your stories. Since last year, I've stopped using social media like FB. When the summer came around, my friends were posting political stuff online and noticed I wasn't interacting with it. My phone would then blow up with messages along the theme of: "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?".
- Moodles 5y ago
  Dude, get new friends. They sound horrible. So many stories. My skip level manager had me in a 1-on-1 once and said something along the lines: “you probably got the green card because Trump likes your demographic”. (I have an EB-1 extraordinary ability green card, and I assume they were talking about me being straight and white). What the fuck am I supposed to say there? Was absolutely speechless. Moments like that are basically shit tests: “are you one of us?” Pretty sure I failed that test. Oh well. One time quite recently I shared a Joe Rogan podcast on slack (Moxie from Signal was on there). I then went to sleep. Man, when I woke up the thread was popping with “I refuse to click on this link”, “Joe Rogan is a transphobe”. Someone posting stories about Joe Rogan being friends with Alex Jones and how problematic that is. Nothing to do with the actual podcast episode with Moxie. If anything, it was hilariously ironic because they were talking about how Signal provides privacy for people and how, if you don’t have privacy, people will scrutinise everything you’ve ever said and find ways to #cancel you. Just bizarre. I couldn’t even be bothered to respond. Honestly most stories at work are just the accumulation of tiny comments here and there. Just the odd joke about conservatives or the implicit assumption you agree with them. One time some girl at work told me “I can tell you’re not as liberal as us”. I asked her why, because I definitely wasn’t but I also definitely didn’t bother arguing at work. She said she could just tell by my vibe. I mean it’s true. Fair play to her I guess.