4 ms·

In terms of realised outcome, maybe. In terms of potential, though, the only difference between a Kiwi baby and an American baby is the fact v that the America

In terms of realised outcome, maybe. In terms of potential, though, the only difference between a Kiwi baby and an American baby is the fact v that the American baby is expected to fend for itself.

noofen 5y ago
Sorry to break this to you, but there are real genetic differences in behavior and impulse control. I know it's not popular to notice now, but in 100 years it will be common knowledge, just like it was 100 years ago.
- yladiz 5y ago
  Citation needed, especially in context with the comment talking about American vs Kiwi people.
  - noofen 5y ago
    Racial differences in homicide rates are poorly explained by economics [1]. [1]: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differences-in-homicide-rates-are-poorly-explained-by-economics/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differe...
    - maroonblazer 5y ago
      They're also poorly explained by genetics, as evidenced by the blog you cited.
      - noofen 5y ago
        The blog I cited found single-motherhood to be the most predictive. > At any given income level, black communities tend towards substantially higher average rates of single-motherhood (which, incidentally, contributes significantly differences in poverty rates as this data is reported). These "large differences in family structure" could be explained by r/K selection theory [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory
        runako 5y ago
        Occam would likely object to being left out of the conversation. Perhaps there's a more obvious reason for some of the differences in our society. Without going into too much detail, consider that the millennial generation of African Americans is the first generation in the country's history to be granted full citizenship rights at birth. (The beginning of Gen X was born into a legally segregated society.) Might that have an impact? If you do not believe the impact is material, it would be reasonable to ask you to explain why.
        renewiltord 5y ago
        > * the millennial generation of African Americans is the first generation in the country's history to be granted full citizenship rights at birth * Well, now that’s a fact to marvel at. Wow.
    - mushbino 5y ago
      Where in this analysis do they account for slavery, Jim Crowe, mass incarceration, redlining, systemic racism, etc? Or is the feeling that these things have no significant impact?
      - noofen 5y ago
        How do you account for it? Just give them more money? Rich African Americans commit crimes at a higher rate than Asians and Whites at the same socioeconomic level. Irish people haven't had a particularly pleasant past either, and you don't see people making excuses for them.
        mushbino 5y ago
        Massive investments in black communities. Comparing the treatment of the Irish to 400 years of institutionalized chattel slavery is absurd on its face. Also, again, ignoring everything else I mentioned. Some books you should check out to learn more about this. The New Jim Crow and The Color of Money. Black communities have been chronically underfunded, underserved, over-policed, and segregated for the entire history of our country.
  - postsantum 5y ago
    Citations on this topic haven't been doing well the last couple of decades. See what happened to James Watson
- iab 5y ago
  It used to be common knowledge, was debunked, and will be re-bunked?
  - noofen 5y ago
    Yes. Just like the "COVID-19 lab origin" theory was called a "conspiracy theory" and "debunked" months ago. Only this lie has been going on for much longer. Recently we've been seeing Asians being subjugated to barbaric hate-crimes, and the perpetrators are almost always African American. These patterns emerge in virtually every crime statistic, and "socioeconomic status" doesn't explain the discrepancies, unfortunately.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      Are they hate crimes, or just crimes? As in, are the perpetrators engaging in these assaults because they have a specific hatred of Asians or are they just acting in a barbaric way in general and an Asian person happened to be in the way? I mean that as a genuine question - the videos I've seen have all been ambiguous on this fact.
      - noofen 5y ago
        The videos I've seen often include the perpetrator yelling racial slurs at the victim and telling them to "go back where they came from." [1]: see 1:17 https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mnysc1/racists_sexually_harassing_terrorizing_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mnys... [2]: see 0:29 https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mcjjnm/yet_another_antiasian_racist_incident_also_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mcjj... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mibrzh/man_comes_in_with_a_metal_bar_and_proceeds_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mibr... [4]: bystanders laughing https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/md8r14/asian_womans_hair_pulled_and_attacked_in_philly/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/md8r... [5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/n5y1av/man_punched_asian_shop_owner_in_the_face_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/n5y1av/man_... [6]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mal4mn/stop_asian_hate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mal4... [7]: "you don't belong here" + curbstomp https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mg5mm6/a_racist_black_suspect_repeatedly_kicked_a_65/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mg5m... Of course, will these be charged as hate crimes? Doubtful.
akomtu 5y ago
Genetics is one thing, but there are also environmental differences we don't even know of. One example is lead banned in 70s for its neurological effects. Water in Scandinavia may contain 0.1% less zinc than in SF and that makes a big difference on some neuron properties that we don't know much about.
- nradov 5y ago
  Higher levels of lithium in drinking water seem to reduce rates of depression and suicide. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/lithium-levels-in-drinking-water-and-risk-of-suicide/7C18AC894A0141D3D89B27282AF35DB2 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...
paulddraper 5y ago
The difference -- besides any genetic factors -- is thousands of years of religious, historical, and cultural differences. And, this not being Brave New World, the baby will be subject to them.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  Thousands of years? Get a grip. The US and New Zealand were only colonized by Europeans within the last few hundred years, and all three countries have generally similar cultural/religious backgrounds.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    There's one very important difference, though.
  - paulddraper 5y ago
    Religions and culture indeed date back thousands of years. And while the US and NZ we both colonized by Europe (primarily Britain), the latter has a much stronger dose of native and non-European heritage...to an extent such that Maori is actually an official language.

In terms of realised outcome, maybe. In terms of potential, though, the only difference between a Kiwi baby and an American baby is the fact v that the American baby is expected to fend for itself.

noofen 5y ago

Sorry to break this to you, but there are real genetic differences in behavior and impulse control. I know it's not popular to notice now, but in 100 years it will be common knowledge, just like it was 100 years ago.

yladiz 5y ago
Citation needed, especially in context with the comment talking about American vs Kiwi people.
- noofen 5y ago
  Racial differences in homicide rates are poorly explained by economics [1]. [1]: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differences-in-homicide-rates-are-poorly-explained-by-economics/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/11/16/racial-differe...
  - maroonblazer 5y ago
    They're also poorly explained by genetics, as evidenced by the blog you cited.
    - noofen 5y ago
      The blog I cited found single-motherhood to be the most predictive. > At any given income level, black communities tend towards substantially higher average rates of single-motherhood (which, incidentally, contributes significantly differences in poverty rates as this data is reported). These "large differences in family structure" could be explained by r/K selection theory [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory
      - runako 5y ago
        Occam would likely object to being left out of the conversation. Perhaps there's a more obvious reason for some of the differences in our society. Without going into too much detail, consider that the millennial generation of African Americans is the first generation in the country's history to be granted full citizenship rights at birth. (The beginning of Gen X was born into a legally segregated society.) Might that have an impact? If you do not believe the impact is material, it would be reasonable to ask you to explain why.
        renewiltord 5y ago
        > * the millennial generation of African Americans is the first generation in the country's history to be granted full citizenship rights at birth * Well, now that’s a fact to marvel at. Wow.
  - mushbino 5y ago
    Where in this analysis do they account for slavery, Jim Crowe, mass incarceration, redlining, systemic racism, etc? Or is the feeling that these things have no significant impact?
    - noofen 5y ago
      How do you account for it? Just give them more money? Rich African Americans commit crimes at a higher rate than Asians and Whites at the same socioeconomic level. Irish people haven't had a particularly pleasant past either, and you don't see people making excuses for them.
      - mushbino 5y ago
        Massive investments in black communities. Comparing the treatment of the Irish to 400 years of institutionalized chattel slavery is absurd on its face. Also, again, ignoring everything else I mentioned. Some books you should check out to learn more about this. The New Jim Crow and The Color of Money. Black communities have been chronically underfunded, underserved, over-policed, and segregated for the entire history of our country.
- postsantum 5y ago
  Citations on this topic haven't been doing well the last couple of decades. See what happened to James Watson
iab 5y ago
It used to be common knowledge, was debunked, and will be re-bunked?
- noofen 5y ago
  Yes. Just like the "COVID-19 lab origin" theory was called a "conspiracy theory" and "debunked" months ago. Only this lie has been going on for much longer. Recently we've been seeing Asians being subjugated to barbaric hate-crimes, and the perpetrators are almost always African American. These patterns emerge in virtually every crime statistic, and "socioeconomic status" doesn't explain the discrepancies, unfortunately.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    Are they hate crimes, or just crimes? As in, are the perpetrators engaging in these assaults because they have a specific hatred of Asians or are they just acting in a barbaric way in general and an Asian person happened to be in the way? I mean that as a genuine question - the videos I've seen have all been ambiguous on this fact.
    - noofen 5y ago
      The videos I've seen often include the perpetrator yelling racial slurs at the victim and telling them to "go back where they came from." [1]: see 1:17 https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mnysc1/racists_sexually_harassing_terrorizing_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mnys... [2]: see 0:29 https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mcjjnm/yet_another_antiasian_racist_incident_also_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mcjj... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mibrzh/man_comes_in_with_a_metal_bar_and_proceeds_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mibr... [4]: bystanders laughing https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/md8r14/asian_womans_hair_pulled_and_attacked_in_philly/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/md8r... [5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/n5y1av/man_punched_asian_shop_owner_in_the_face_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/n5y1av/man_... [6]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mal4mn/stop_asian_hate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mal4... [7]: "you don't belong here" + curbstomp https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mg5mm6/a_racist_black_suspect_repeatedly_kicked_a_65/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mg5m... Of course, will these be charged as hate crimes? Doubtful.

akomtu 5y ago

Genetics is one thing, but there are also environmental differences we don't even know of. One example is lead banned in 70s for its neurological effects. Water in Scandinavia may contain 0.1% less zinc than in SF and that makes a big difference on some neuron properties that we don't know much about.

nradov 5y ago
Higher levels of lithium in drinking water seem to reduce rates of depression and suicide. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/lithium-levels-in-drinking-water-and-risk-of-suicide/7C18AC894A0141D3D89B27282AF35DB2 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...

paulddraper 5y ago

The difference -- besides any genetic factors -- is thousands of years of religious, historical, and cultural differences. And, this not being Brave New World, the baby will be subject to them.

duskwuff 5y ago
Thousands of years? Get a grip. The US and New Zealand were only colonized by Europeans within the last few hundred years, and all three countries have generally similar cultural/religious backgrounds.
- akomtu 5y ago
  There's one very important difference, though.
- paulddraper 5y ago
  Religions and culture indeed date back thousands of years. And while the US and NZ we both colonized by Europe (primarily Britain), the latter has a much stronger dose of native and non-European heritage...to an extent such that Maori is actually an official language.