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The repairability index that France rolled out this year is great in that regard. Sellers of certain types of devices including smartphones and laptops are req

by nrp 5y ago

The repairability index that France rolled out this year is great in that regard. Sellers of certain types of devices including smartphones and laptops are required to post a repairability score for the product prominently next to the price tag. This highlights to consumers which products are designed to be usable for longer through repair and upgrade and which aren’t, even if they otherwise look and function similarly.

908B64B197 5y ago
That's a good approach. What would be even more interesting is to evaluate how reliable parts are. Spinning hard drives were often the first thing to fail for instance, due to the mechanical stress. Same thing for ports. Soldered-on RAM and flash, while almost impossible to upgrade, is way more reliable. No vibrations means way less mechanical stress.
- simion314 5y ago
  >Soldered-on RAM and flash, while almost impossible to upgrade, is way more reliable. It depends, software bugs or different workflow cam cause your storage or battery to fail faster, then you need to throw away the entire device because things are impossible or expensive to repair.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Good point.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Flash doesn't fail due to mechanical stress, it fails due to wear cycles which are limited in every case. In every PC or laptop I can replace the flash storge except in the newer devices of the famous fruity manufacturer. And RAM may be reliable but when it's replaceable it means I can upgrade it and use the device for longer instead of having to buy a new device.
  - api 5y ago
    I always massively overspec flash. With wear leveling writes cycles are measured in bytes divided by the size of the drive (roughly) so if you typically have about 900gb of data and a 2-4tb drive you will have an extremely long flash life span. You generally don’t want to run flash near full. That shortens it’s life.
  - jve 5y ago
    Bring your device to BGA reworker and he can change the chips on board. I really don't like the idea that manufacturers MUST provide easily replaceable parts. That will affect product weight and dimensions. Anyways, repair shops are dealing with chips all the time, so I see no problem of chips being changed, swapped and, if manufacturer provides list of supported RAM chips - those can be changed too.
    - teruakohatu 5y ago
      > That will affect product weight and dimensions. So do emissions standards, and they also effect performance. But as a society we realise we are better off with them than without. Forcing a repairable device reduces waste and is, in my opinion, better for the vast majority of consumers.
gerash 5y ago
I haven't seen the repairability index yet it sounds very arbitrary and prone to be gamed. There is no need to micro manage how a device manufacturer designs their products as long as they offset the pollution they create by either paying the local governments to dig more landfills or recycle their own products or send it over to someone who can recycle. There are still open problems on how to measure the pollution but it's a more flexible approach than a repairability score.
- lolinder 5y ago
  Paying for more landfills hardly offsets the pollution from a smartphone. Recycling might be better, but my understanding is that the worst damage is done in the mining/refining/manufacturing, not in the final home in a landfill.
  - socialdemocrat 5y ago
    Exactly, which is why you would want products which last long or are easy to repair. This reduces the need to manufacture lots of devices. Obviously this goes against the desires of companies which want to maximum sales.
- Google234 5y ago
  There’s almost infinite volume underground and an huge amount of unlivable space (like deserts) to place the minuscule amount of trash that we produce.
- socialdemocrat 5y ago
  Recycling it’s much worse for the environment than simply reusing or repairing an existing product. Markets are not perfect, so why does regulations need to be perfect? They just need to be better than the alternative.
simonh 5y ago
>This highlights to consumers which products are designed to be usable for longer through repair and upgrade and which aren’t... Except a rating like that doesn't actually indicate expected average device lifetime at all. It's common knowledge Apple devices are low on repairability, yet they have average device working lifetimes and post-sale vendor support periods much longer than the very best you'll find among their competitors. You can also see this from the way they retain their second hand value for years longer than competing devices with much higher repairability scores. People buying these devices second hand know perfectly well they have practical longer working lifetimes than their competition, and they're willing to pay for that.

by nrp 5y ago

908B64B197 5y ago

That's a good approach. What would be even more interesting is to evaluate how reliable parts are. Spinning hard drives were often the first thing to fail for instance, due to the mechanical stress. Same thing for ports. Soldered-on RAM and flash, while almost impossible to upgrade, is way more reliable. No vibrations means way less mechanical stress.

simion314 5y ago
>Soldered-on RAM and flash, while almost impossible to upgrade, is way more reliable. It depends, software bugs or different workflow cam cause your storage or battery to fail faster, then you need to throw away the entire device because things are impossible or expensive to repair.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Good point.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Flash doesn't fail due to mechanical stress, it fails due to wear cycles which are limited in every case. In every PC or laptop I can replace the flash storge except in the newer devices of the famous fruity manufacturer. And RAM may be reliable but when it's replaceable it means I can upgrade it and use the device for longer instead of having to buy a new device.
- api 5y ago
  I always massively overspec flash. With wear leveling writes cycles are measured in bytes divided by the size of the drive (roughly) so if you typically have about 900gb of data and a 2-4tb drive you will have an extremely long flash life span. You generally don’t want to run flash near full. That shortens it’s life.
- jve 5y ago
  Bring your device to BGA reworker and he can change the chips on board. I really don't like the idea that manufacturers MUST provide easily replaceable parts. That will affect product weight and dimensions. Anyways, repair shops are dealing with chips all the time, so I see no problem of chips being changed, swapped and, if manufacturer provides list of supported RAM chips - those can be changed too.
  - teruakohatu 5y ago
    > That will affect product weight and dimensions. So do emissions standards, and they also effect performance. But as a society we realise we are better off with them than without. Forcing a repairable device reduces waste and is, in my opinion, better for the vast majority of consumers.

gerash 5y ago

I haven't seen the repairability index yet it sounds very arbitrary and prone to be gamed. There is no need to micro manage how a device manufacturer designs their products as long as they offset the pollution they create by either paying the local governments to dig more landfills or recycle their own products or send it over to someone who can recycle. There are still open problems on how to measure the pollution but it's a more flexible approach than a repairability score.

lolinder 5y ago
Paying for more landfills hardly offsets the pollution from a smartphone. Recycling might be better, but my understanding is that the worst damage is done in the mining/refining/manufacturing, not in the final home in a landfill.
- socialdemocrat 5y ago
  Exactly, which is why you would want products which last long or are easy to repair. This reduces the need to manufacture lots of devices. Obviously this goes against the desires of companies which want to maximum sales.
Google234 5y ago
There’s almost infinite volume underground and an huge amount of unlivable space (like deserts) to place the minuscule amount of trash that we produce.
socialdemocrat 5y ago
Recycling it’s much worse for the environment than simply reusing or repairing an existing product. Markets are not perfect, so why does regulations need to be perfect? They just need to be better than the alternative.

simonh 5y ago

>This highlights to consumers which products are designed to be usable for longer through repair and upgrade and which aren’t... Except a rating like that doesn't actually indicate expected average device lifetime at all. It's common knowledge Apple devices are low on repairability, yet they have average device working lifetimes and post-sale vendor support periods much longer than the very best you'll find among their competitors. You can also see this from the way they retain their second hand value for years longer than competing devices with much higher repairability scores. People buying these devices second hand know perfectly well they have practical longer working lifetimes than their competition, and they're willing to pay for that.