6 ms·

<retracted>

by trimbo 5y ago

bsder 5y ago
> Then we'll have to trust that all of these companies have the same level of competence to prevent malware that Apple does (narrator: "they won't"). This is a losing argument. We've already seen that the Apple store doesn't/can't prevent clones and fakes with information collecting inserts from overwhelming the originals. Another store might actually do this better.
- insert_coin 5y ago
  They already can do it better on Android!
- elefanten 5y ago
  This is a ridiculous caricature of reality. If anything, empirically we've seen that Apple runs a much tighter ship wrt scams and malware than Android and 3rd party friendly platforms. Especially from the perspective of non-tech mass consumer, who are incredibly well served by Apple's model. Legislating / ruling Apple's closed model to be illegal is the true harm to consumer choice and freedom.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    When you only have two choices of operating system for phones, there is not choice. It's a duopoly; there's nothing competitive or pro-consumer in having to lump the entirety of your mobile OS feature sets in two camps and damn anything else that doesn't remotely resemble that. Sorry but Toyota doesn't have its business model harmed by being able to go to my mechanic to tune a car. If Apple wants to put three layers of dialogues to open up customization, so be it. I have no sympathy for a trillion-dollar company and their "choice".
kbenson 5y ago
> Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?
- zepto 5y ago
  Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores, and is also not the market leader. It’s obviously not an example for this, otherwise Epic would have just made an Android store and moved on.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    > Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores The only thing that Android doesn't allow is for the third-party stores to auto-update apps installed through those stores. I'm not going to say that's not a big deal, because it's definitely annoying, but I have F-Droid on my phone and get plenty of value out of it, despite having to go through a confirmation dialog to update the apps I've installed through it. > ... and is also not the market leader Which is entirely irrelevant. (And if you consider the world market, not just the US, Android definitely is the market leader.)
    - zepto 5y ago
      > Which is entirely irrelevant. If it was irrelevant, Epic would have just created an Android store and let Apple go their own way.
    - jakouf 5y ago
      Good news for you, seems like Android 12 is adding this https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-alternative-app-stores-update-apps-background/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-alternative-app-st...
  - kbenson 5y ago
    > Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores Don't change the goal posts. Apple doesn't provide anything. Having to pass through a dialogue after download t confirm install isn't ideal, but possible is better than not. > and is also not the market leader. Android is at 45% and apple is at 55%.[1] Is your contention that a least of that amount is sufficient such that it actually changes this in some way? If so, how do you square that with Android's worldwide market share being reported as 72% in 2020?[2] 1: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-amer... 2: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...
cle 5y ago
To use the same argument as "don't use iOS"...simply don't use the alternate app store. I can't yet convince myself that "don't use iOS" is a valid argument while "don't use a different app store" is not.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
That sounds awesome IMO. If Apple opened the iPhone up I would buy one.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Exactly. So would I.

by trimbo 5y ago

> Then we'll have to trust that all of these companies have the same level of competence to prevent malware that Apple does (narrator: "they won't"). This is a losing argument. We've already seen that the Apple store doesn't/can't prevent clones and fakes with information collecting inserts from overwhelming the originals. Another store might actually do this better.

insert_coin 5y ago
They already can do it better on Android!
elefanten 5y ago
This is a ridiculous caricature of reality. If anything, empirically we've seen that Apple runs a much tighter ship wrt scams and malware than Android and 3rd party friendly platforms. Especially from the perspective of non-tech mass consumer, who are incredibly well served by Apple's model. Legislating / ruling Apple's closed model to be illegal is the true harm to consumer choice and freedom.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  When you only have two choices of operating system for phones, there is not choice. It's a duopoly; there's nothing competitive or pro-consumer in having to lump the entirety of your mobile OS feature sets in two camps and damn anything else that doesn't remotely resemble that. Sorry but Toyota doesn't have its business model harmed by being able to go to my mechanic to tune a car. If Apple wants to put three layers of dialogues to open up customization, so be it. I have no sympathy for a trillion-dollar company and their "choice".

kbenson 5y ago

> Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?

zepto 5y ago
Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores, and is also not the market leader. It’s obviously not an example for this, otherwise Epic would have just made an Android store and moved on.
- kelnos 5y ago
  > Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores The only thing that Android doesn't allow is for the third-party stores to auto-update apps installed through those stores. I'm not going to say that's not a big deal, because it's definitely annoying, but I have F-Droid on my phone and get plenty of value out of it, despite having to go through a confirmation dialog to update the apps I've installed through it. > ... and is also not the market leader Which is entirely irrelevant. (And if you consider the world market, not just the US, Android definitely is the market leader.)
  - zepto 5y ago
    > Which is entirely irrelevant. If it was irrelevant, Epic would have just created an Android store and let Apple go their own way.
  - jakouf 5y ago
    Good news for you, seems like Android 12 is adding this https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-alternative-app-stores-update-apps-background/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-alternative-app-st...
- kbenson 5y ago
  > Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores Don't change the goal posts. Apple doesn't provide anything. Having to pass through a dialogue after download t confirm install isn't ideal, but possible is better than not. > and is also not the market leader. Android is at 45% and apple is at 55%.[1] Is your contention that a least of that amount is sufficient such that it actually changes this in some way? If so, how do you square that with Android's worldwide market share being reported as 72% in 2020?[2] 1: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-amer... 2: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...

cle 5y ago

To use the same argument as "don't use iOS"...simply don't use the alternate app store. I can't yet convince myself that "don't use iOS" is a valid argument while "don't use a different app store" is not.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

That sounds awesome IMO. If Apple opened the iPhone up I would buy one.

fartcannon 5y ago
Exactly. So would I.