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The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Third party stores will emerge, and it is up to the consumer, not Apple, to decide whether the extra feature

The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Third party stores will emerge, and it is up to the consumer, not Apple, to decide whether the extra features are worth the new apps being a little rough around the edges like they are on Android. If it's as bad as you say, the new stores will not be successful anyway.

threatofrain 5y ago
Why do users care about this choice? What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? In fact, isn't it often the other way around? iOS gets things and Android doesn't? Or are users seeing awful prices for the app store? Where are Customers complaining the most?
- skohan 5y ago
  Well I can imagine if 3rd party stores were allowed, I could have a Steam client on an iPad for example, and share my library of games without paying for it a second time for iOS.
  - pindab0ter 5y ago
    But there’s no Steam on Android either even though they do support third party app stores.
    - Dah00n 5y ago
      There are rumours of Valve looking into Steam on Android and iOS.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- kbenson 5y ago
  > What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? The Humble Bundle app allows you to install Android games you bought through humble bundles onto your Android phone. This allows you to buy bundles of games from developers at your own desired purchase price and give an amount of that purchase you choose to some charities of your choice. It is, quite literally, used as another store and has the ability to install applications. Many of the games I've gotten through that are also available on iOS, but you're unable to get iOS versions from this because there's no way to install that app nor a way for it to install other applications if you did, currently. At least some of those developers would be happy to offer iOS versions as a bundle, or even give you access to choose iOS or Android in the same bundle, but there's no way to legitimately deliver these games to those customers.
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  >What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? Recently, cloud gaming apps and paying for subscriptions. Google Stadia and Xbox Streaming are not allowed through the iOS Store. Netflix and Spotify(not sure about this one) do not allow you to pay for the subscription on their app because Apple asks for 30%. Apple does not allow other browser rendering engines. So now every iOS browser is just a Safari wrapper and you're unable to do any sort of plug-in, like adblockers. These features being blocked does not help customers. They only help Apple.
nucleardog 5y ago
> The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Users have a choice: Don't use iOS. Their actions have pretty overwhelmingly spoken and they don't care. The only people that care are techies. And most obviously not that much because most meetings I show up to are still full of iPhones.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  I’m a techie and I don’t want to worry about malware, spyware, extensive software configuration, etc. on my microwave, my car, or my phone. I’ve got plenty of computing devices for that!
  - moogly 5y ago
    iOS isn't immune: https://interestingengineering.com/apple-reportedly-kept-malware-attack-on-128-million-users-a-secret https://interestingengineering.com/apple-reportedly-kept-mal...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kelnos 5y ago
  > Users have a choice: Don't use iOS. The judge in question was clearly not at all impressed with this argument when Cook raised it, and neither am I. This amounts to telling people to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time they have an issue with something.
- nervlord 5y ago
  Users have a choice: Don't use Microsoft Windows if you don't like the bundled Internet Explorer.
- egocentric 5y ago
  You will also have a choice: don’t use alternative stores And if Apple is so concerned about user security & privacy when it comes to alternative app stores, they should adjust their policies so that the apps most users want will see no reason not to be on the App Store.
trimbo 5y ago
<retracted>
- bsder 5y ago
  > Then we'll have to trust that all of these companies have the same level of competence to prevent malware that Apple does (narrator: "they won't"). This is a losing argument. We've already seen that the Apple store doesn't/can't prevent clones and fakes with information collecting inserts from overwhelming the originals. Another store might actually do this better.
  - insert_coin 5y ago
    They already can do it better on Android!
  - elefanten 5y ago
    This is a ridiculous caricature of reality. If anything, empirically we've seen that Apple runs a much tighter ship wrt scams and malware than Android and 3rd party friendly platforms. Especially from the perspective of non-tech mass consumer, who are incredibly well served by Apple's model. Legislating / ruling Apple's closed model to be illegal is the true harm to consumer choice and freedom.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      When you only have two choices of operating system for phones, there is not choice. It's a duopoly; there's nothing competitive or pro-consumer in having to lump the entirety of your mobile OS feature sets in two camps and damn anything else that doesn't remotely resemble that. Sorry but Toyota doesn't have its business model harmed by being able to go to my mechanic to tune a car. If Apple wants to put three layers of dialogues to open up customization, so be it. I have no sympathy for a trillion-dollar company and their "choice".
- kbenson 5y ago
  > Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

threatofrain 5y ago

Why do users care about this choice? What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? In fact, isn't it often the other way around? iOS gets things and Android doesn't? Or are users seeing awful prices for the app store? Where are Customers complaining the most?

skohan 5y ago
Well I can imagine if 3rd party stores were allowed, I could have a Steam client on an iPad for example, and share my library of games without paying for it a second time for iOS.
- pindab0ter 5y ago
  But there’s no Steam on Android either even though they do support third party app stores.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    There are rumours of Valve looking into Steam on Android and iOS.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
kbenson 5y ago
> What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? The Humble Bundle app allows you to install Android games you bought through humble bundles onto your Android phone. This allows you to buy bundles of games from developers at your own desired purchase price and give an amount of that purchase you choose to some charities of your choice. It is, quite literally, used as another store and has the ability to install applications. Many of the games I've gotten through that are also available on iOS, but you're unable to get iOS versions from this because there's no way to install that app nor a way for it to install other applications if you did, currently. At least some of those developers would be happy to offer iOS versions as a bundle, or even give you access to choose iOS or Android in the same bundle, but there's no way to legitimately deliver these games to those customers.
ThatPlayer 5y ago
>What are some top experiences available to Android which aren't available to iOS customers? Recently, cloud gaming apps and paying for subscriptions. Google Stadia and Xbox Streaming are not allowed through the iOS Store. Netflix and Spotify(not sure about this one) do not allow you to pay for the subscription on their app because Apple asks for 30%. Apple does not allow other browser rendering engines. So now every iOS browser is just a Safari wrapper and you're unable to do any sort of plug-in, like adblockers. These features being blocked does not help customers. They only help Apple.

nucleardog 5y ago

> The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Users have a choice: Don't use iOS. Their actions have pretty overwhelmingly spoken and they don't care. The only people that care are techies. And most obviously not that much because most meetings I show up to are still full of iPhones.

tshaddox 5y ago
I’m a techie and I don’t want to worry about malware, spyware, extensive software configuration, etc. on my microwave, my car, or my phone. I’ve got plenty of computing devices for that!
- moogly 5y ago
  iOS isn't immune: https://interestingengineering.com/apple-reportedly-kept-malware-attack-on-128-million-users-a-secret https://interestingengineering.com/apple-reportedly-kept-mal...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kelnos 5y ago
> Users have a choice: Don't use iOS. The judge in question was clearly not at all impressed with this argument when Cook raised it, and neither am I. This amounts to telling people to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time they have an issue with something.
nervlord 5y ago
Users have a choice: Don't use Microsoft Windows if you don't like the bundled Internet Explorer.
egocentric 5y ago
You will also have a choice: don’t use alternative stores And if Apple is so concerned about user security & privacy when it comes to alternative app stores, they should adjust their policies so that the apps most users want will see no reason not to be on the App Store.

trimbo 5y ago

bsder 5y ago
> Then we'll have to trust that all of these companies have the same level of competence to prevent malware that Apple does (narrator: "they won't"). This is a losing argument. We've already seen that the Apple store doesn't/can't prevent clones and fakes with information collecting inserts from overwhelming the originals. Another store might actually do this better.
- insert_coin 5y ago
  They already can do it better on Android!
- elefanten 5y ago
  This is a ridiculous caricature of reality. If anything, empirically we've seen that Apple runs a much tighter ship wrt scams and malware than Android and 3rd party friendly platforms. Especially from the perspective of non-tech mass consumer, who are incredibly well served by Apple's model. Legislating / ruling Apple's closed model to be illegal is the true harm to consumer choice and freedom.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    When you only have two choices of operating system for phones, there is not choice. It's a duopoly; there's nothing competitive or pro-consumer in having to lump the entirety of your mobile OS feature sets in two camps and damn anything else that doesn't remotely resemble that. Sorry but Toyota doesn't have its business model harmed by being able to go to my mechanic to tune a car. If Apple wants to put three layers of dialogues to open up customization, so be it. I have no sympathy for a trillion-dollar company and their "choice".
kbenson 5y ago
> Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]