6 ms·

Trucks very much have a place in society. Farmers, construction workers, and some other areas definitely need them. The trend that they need to be an everyday

by mfer 5y ago

Trucks very much have a place in society. Farmers, construction workers, and some other areas definitely need them. The trend that they need to be an everyday vehicle for anyone is something that should be looked at. What is the psychology and intentional planning that's caused this shift? What subtle population engineering has lead to this without people realizing it?

ballenf 5y ago
Speaking personally, I've never owned a truck but began considering it during Covid. Why? The cost premium of hiring someone for home improvement jobs vs. DIY seems to have gone up. And the difficulty of finding someone qualified, reputable and with available capacity seems to have become exponentially higher. "So I guess I need a truck" is what I've recently been thinking.
- kasey_junk 5y ago
  A van is better in almost every dimension for construction. Effectively the only reason to own a pickup truck (vs some other better utility vehicle) is if you have trailer that needs it.
  - igetspam 5y ago
    Disagree. I can fit lots of oddly shaped things in the bed of a truck. Vans have walls and doors that create hard limits.
  - itsyaboi 5y ago
    When you say "construction", are you referring to something like drywall/framing/roofing or electrical/trim work? I ask because fitting a stack of OSB sheets in a van can be anywhere from challenging to impossible (depending on the type of van of course). Certain trim levels of the F150 for example, are designed with the specific requirement of being able to accommodate standard sizes of construction materials, like a 4x8 sheet of OSB.
    - kasey_junk 5y ago
      Transits and sprinters are designed to be able to lay 4x8 sheets flat on the floor.
  - jjav 5y ago
    > A van is better in almost every dimension for construction. Vans are nice and in the used market often cheaper. I used to rent/borrow a friends full size van before having a truck. Still, the roof creates limitations. Can't transport a fridge or water heater upright, for example. And for towing as mentioned, a van is limited to a bumper pull trailer whereas a pickup can pull a fifth wheel or gooseneck.
- m-ee 5y ago
  In a similar vein covid changed my recreation habits enough to make me consider a truck/suv. With nowhere to go except outdoors I spent a lot more time camping/kayaking in Tahoe and national parks. Bringing an inflatable kayak, paddle board, and camping supplies for the weekend was doable in my hatchback but not exactly comfortable and wouldn’t work with more than two people. Something with more storage and 4WD drive started sounding very appealing. The F-150 is very competitive with a new 4-runner or Tacoma on cost and features. Just wish it wasn’t so gigantic.
idiotsecant 5y ago
There are a certain group of users that need the machines to be strong for towing, tall for required ground clearance, and with bed capacity to haul material, tools, and other everyday cargo. There is another group that doesn't need any of things but is convinced that they might some day. They are aspirational requirements. Why are those people convinced they need these things? The same reason anyone is convinced they need anything in the modern world. Advertising. Truck ads tell you that the Ford F150 is a tough truck for men who are tough (or want to be) and don't take nothin' from nobody (once they get out of this crappy job) and are masters of nature (or surely would be if they didn't live in the suburbs). They buy product placement in all the badass movies, their commercials look like b-roll from a transformers movie, and the trucks themselves get more comfortable and less utilitarian every year. Ford is not in the business of selling (light) trucks - they are in the business of selling an aspirational lifestyle to a population that thinks they might one day become an action hero. The F150 is, and has been for a long time, a consumer toy and not a serious work vehicle.
- jrsj 5y ago
  I’m about as “casual” of a user as possible and it’s still much less that I might theoretically need these things someday and more that I do need them, occasionally. For myself or for friends + family.
  - igetspam 5y ago
    This. Before I left the bay, I daily drove a motorcycle or a Jeep. Many of my weekends required truck. If you can only have one, the truck is the better tradeoff.
  - baq 5y ago
    Why not rent something occasionally then?
    - jrsj 5y ago
      I got a good deal on something very well equipped with low mileage, and trucks tend to hold their value exceptionally well. It’s also just more convenient this way.
eropple 5y ago
YMMV--but, in my experience, a single user multiple vehicles in the US can be pretty tough (at least, going from 1 to 2; it seems a lot easier when you go from 2 to 3). I am looking at a new, single vehicle, and this electric F-150 might be it--because I need to be able to carry plywood sheets and my Hyundai subcompact isn't gonna cut it. I can't speak to the more general, aspirational subculture to which you refer, but the aggravation of multiple vehicles is in some ways the first stop on this tour.
brokencode 5y ago
It’s a vehicle, not a mental disorder. Some people just want to be able to occasionally tow a boat or haul some furniture without needing to rent a truck. I think the attitude of “you don’t need a truck unless you’re a blue collar worker” is pretty elitist and ignorant, honestly. As if the decision to buy a truck is somehow invalid because white collar workers don’t see the need for one.
- jrsj 5y ago
  It’s honestly a lot more practical than people seem to think. And if electric trucks hold their value anything like ICE trucks, getting one with a tax credit at about $40k for the base model is probably the best deal in a new vehicle you can find.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  > I think the attitude of “you don’t need a truck unless you’re a blue collar worker” is pretty elitist and ignorant, honestly. A sedan with the rear seats folded down will likely hold as much as you can get in a Costco run. Or two bikes you throw in there. I know because mine does both of these things. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of current truck owners 1) don't own boats 2) rarely, if ever, haul furniture 3) use the space in the rear on a regular basis. Against this we have the known statistics of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities due to the obstructions to visibility provided by the very high front grille and very high ride height (plus wide A-pillars, etc.) So it's therefore not only a waste of gas but a public health hazard, and making that claim is not "elitist", it's merely "rational" and "empirical" (and allow me to add, "humane") https://smartgrowthamerica.org/bigger-vehicles-are-directly-resulting-in-more-deaths-of-people-walking/ https://smartgrowthamerica.org/bigger-vehicles-are-directly-... "Recent research from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee found the share of pedestrian deaths involving trucks, vans, and SUVs has increased from 22 to 44 percent since the mid-1980s. More SUVs and trucks in the fleet = more pedestrian injuries becoming deaths instead." https://www.outsideonline.com/2411345/suvs-trucks-deadly-cyclist-crashes https://www.outsideonline.com/2411345/suvs-trucks-deadly-cyc...
  - ben7799 5y ago
jrsj 5y ago
I own an F150 I use primarily for commuting but it also has a comfortable ride, >20 highway mpg, good visibility, utility for when I need to move furniture etc, and it’s relatively affordable and holds its value. Trucks depreciate slower than any other category of vehicle. Literally the only downside is that it’s a pain to park sometimes.
- namdnay 5y ago
  if my conversion is right, 25 us mpg is 10 l/100km... that's nearly double the consumption of a family estate.
  - jrsj 5y ago
    Most sedans get somewhere in the 30s on the highway unless they are hybrids, so it’s about a 50% difference. Not insignificant, but not as massive of a difference as you would think. From a purely economic point of view you’d have to drive a lot for the cost of gas to cost you more than you save from having less depreciation.
  - quantumwannabe 5y ago
    First off, you can't compare the fuel economy values between countries just by doing a conversion. Europe has different testing procedures that give higher numbers than the American EPA test does (normally around 20-25%), and the only way you'll have an accurate number is if the car is sold in both countries. The F150 has fuel economy close to that of wagons sold in the US. The F150 is less efficient, but it has way more than half the fuel economy of a wagon. Examples: A base E-Class Wagon gets 24 mpg (22 city, 28 highway). A 4WD V6 F150 (which I think is the most popular) gets 21 mpg (19 city, 24 highway). The most efficient F150 available (the 2WD Hybrid) gets 25 mpg (25 city, 26 highway). Wagons aren't super popular in the US so there aren't that many on the market. Here is a comparison of the fuel economies of the F150 vs several wagons available in the US: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43464&id=43156&id=42859&id=42679 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43464&...
    - namdnay 5y ago
JohnWhigham 5y ago
>What is the psychology Americans want it because everyone else has one. Down here in TX, the number of pristine trucks that have never seen a speck of dirt, never had anything in the bed, and that are parked on their 1/8 acre lots in the city is staggering.
- igetspam 5y ago
  I love how they're still measured in acres but as a fraction. I have 2.5ac and our truck is usually filthy. :)

by mfer 5y ago

ballenf 5y ago

Speaking personally, I've never owned a truck but began considering it during Covid. Why? The cost premium of hiring someone for home improvement jobs vs. DIY seems to have gone up. And the difficulty of finding someone qualified, reputable and with available capacity seems to have become exponentially higher. "So I guess I need a truck" is what I've recently been thinking.

kasey_junk 5y ago
A van is better in almost every dimension for construction. Effectively the only reason to own a pickup truck (vs some other better utility vehicle) is if you have trailer that needs it.
- igetspam 5y ago
  Disagree. I can fit lots of oddly shaped things in the bed of a truck. Vans have walls and doors that create hard limits.
- itsyaboi 5y ago
  When you say "construction", are you referring to something like drywall/framing/roofing or electrical/trim work? I ask because fitting a stack of OSB sheets in a van can be anywhere from challenging to impossible (depending on the type of van of course). Certain trim levels of the F150 for example, are designed with the specific requirement of being able to accommodate standard sizes of construction materials, like a 4x8 sheet of OSB.
  - kasey_junk 5y ago
    Transits and sprinters are designed to be able to lay 4x8 sheets flat on the floor.
- jjav 5y ago
  > A van is better in almost every dimension for construction. Vans are nice and in the used market often cheaper. I used to rent/borrow a friends full size van before having a truck. Still, the roof creates limitations. Can't transport a fridge or water heater upright, for example. And for towing as mentioned, a van is limited to a bumper pull trailer whereas a pickup can pull a fifth wheel or gooseneck.
m-ee 5y ago
In a similar vein covid changed my recreation habits enough to make me consider a truck/suv. With nowhere to go except outdoors I spent a lot more time camping/kayaking in Tahoe and national parks. Bringing an inflatable kayak, paddle board, and camping supplies for the weekend was doable in my hatchback but not exactly comfortable and wouldn’t work with more than two people. Something with more storage and 4WD drive started sounding very appealing. The F-150 is very competitive with a new 4-runner or Tacoma on cost and features. Just wish it wasn’t so gigantic.

idiotsecant 5y ago

There are a certain group of users that need the machines to be strong for towing, tall for required ground clearance, and with bed capacity to haul material, tools, and other everyday cargo. There is another group that doesn't need any of things but is convinced that they might some day. They are aspirational requirements. Why are those people convinced they need these things? The same reason anyone is convinced they need anything in the modern world. Advertising. Truck ads tell you that the Ford F150 is a tough truck for men who are tough (or want to be) and don't take nothin' from nobody (once they get out of this crappy job) and are masters of nature (or surely would be if they didn't live in the suburbs). They buy product placement in all the badass movies, their commercials look like b-roll from a transformers movie, and the trucks themselves get more comfortable and less utilitarian every year. Ford is not in the business of selling (light) trucks - they are in the business of selling an aspirational lifestyle to a population that thinks they might one day become an action hero. The F150 is, and has been for a long time, a consumer toy and not a serious work vehicle.

jrsj 5y ago
I’m about as “casual” of a user as possible and it’s still much less that I might theoretically need these things someday and more that I do need them, occasionally. For myself or for friends + family.
- igetspam 5y ago
  This. Before I left the bay, I daily drove a motorcycle or a Jeep. Many of my weekends required truck. If you can only have one, the truck is the better tradeoff.
- baq 5y ago
  Why not rent something occasionally then?
  - jrsj 5y ago
    I got a good deal on something very well equipped with low mileage, and trucks tend to hold their value exceptionally well. It’s also just more convenient this way.

eropple 5y ago

YMMV--but, in my experience, a single user multiple vehicles in the US can be pretty tough (at least, going from 1 to 2; it seems a lot easier when you go from 2 to 3). I am looking at a new, single vehicle, and this electric F-150 might be it--because I need to be able to carry plywood sheets and my Hyundai subcompact isn't gonna cut it. I can't speak to the more general, aspirational subculture to which you refer, but the aggravation of multiple vehicles is in some ways the first stop on this tour.

brokencode 5y ago

It’s a vehicle, not a mental disorder. Some people just want to be able to occasionally tow a boat or haul some furniture without needing to rent a truck. I think the attitude of “you don’t need a truck unless you’re a blue collar worker” is pretty elitist and ignorant, honestly. As if the decision to buy a truck is somehow invalid because white collar workers don’t see the need for one.

jrsj 5y ago
It’s honestly a lot more practical than people seem to think. And if electric trucks hold their value anything like ICE trucks, getting one with a tax credit at about $40k for the base model is probably the best deal in a new vehicle you can find.
pmarreck 5y ago
> I think the attitude of “you don’t need a truck unless you’re a blue collar worker” is pretty elitist and ignorant, honestly. A sedan with the rear seats folded down will likely hold as much as you can get in a Costco run. Or two bikes you throw in there. I know because mine does both of these things. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of current truck owners 1) don't own boats 2) rarely, if ever, haul furniture 3) use the space in the rear on a regular basis. Against this we have the known statistics of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities due to the obstructions to visibility provided by the very high front grille and very high ride height (plus wide A-pillars, etc.) So it's therefore not only a waste of gas but a public health hazard, and making that claim is not "elitist", it's merely "rational" and "empirical" (and allow me to add, "humane") https://smartgrowthamerica.org/bigger-vehicles-are-directly-resulting-in-more-deaths-of-people-walking/ https://smartgrowthamerica.org/bigger-vehicles-are-directly-... "Recent research from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee found the share of pedestrian deaths involving trucks, vans, and SUVs has increased from 22 to 44 percent since the mid-1980s. More SUVs and trucks in the fleet = more pedestrian injuries becoming deaths instead." https://www.outsideonline.com/2411345/suvs-trucks-deadly-cyclist-crashes https://www.outsideonline.com/2411345/suvs-trucks-deadly-cyc...
- ben7799 5y ago

jrsj 5y ago

I own an F150 I use primarily for commuting but it also has a comfortable ride, >20 highway mpg, good visibility, utility for when I need to move furniture etc, and it’s relatively affordable and holds its value. Trucks depreciate slower than any other category of vehicle. Literally the only downside is that it’s a pain to park sometimes.

namdnay 5y ago
if my conversion is right, 25 us mpg is 10 l/100km... that's nearly double the consumption of a family estate.
- jrsj 5y ago
  Most sedans get somewhere in the 30s on the highway unless they are hybrids, so it’s about a 50% difference. Not insignificant, but not as massive of a difference as you would think. From a purely economic point of view you’d have to drive a lot for the cost of gas to cost you more than you save from having less depreciation.
- quantumwannabe 5y ago
  First off, you can't compare the fuel economy values between countries just by doing a conversion. Europe has different testing procedures that give higher numbers than the American EPA test does (normally around 20-25%), and the only way you'll have an accurate number is if the car is sold in both countries. The F150 has fuel economy close to that of wagons sold in the US. The F150 is less efficient, but it has way more than half the fuel economy of a wagon. Examples: A base E-Class Wagon gets 24 mpg (22 city, 28 highway). A 4WD V6 F150 (which I think is the most popular) gets 21 mpg (19 city, 24 highway). The most efficient F150 available (the 2WD Hybrid) gets 25 mpg (25 city, 26 highway). Wagons aren't super popular in the US so there aren't that many on the market. Here is a comparison of the fuel economies of the F150 vs several wagons available in the US: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43464&id=43156&id=42859&id=42679 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43464&...
  - namdnay 5y ago

JohnWhigham 5y ago

>What is the psychology Americans want it because everyone else has one. Down here in TX, the number of pristine trucks that have never seen a speck of dirt, never had anything in the bed, and that are parked on their 1/8 acre lots in the city is staggering.

igetspam 5y ago
I love how they're still measured in acres but as a fraction. I have 2.5ac and our truck is usually filthy. :)