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> Or do you mean that it's easier to sequester the CO2 than to get children to stop pounding things containing lithium? The claim that electric cars are good f

> Or do you mean that it's easier to sequester the CO2 than to get children to stop pounding things containing lithium? The claim that electric cars are good for the environment is a lie. They are not "good", they are not even "neutral". They are "bad". People that really care about the environment ride a bike. They don't buy an electric car and try to justify the currently unknown long term environmental consequences of their purchase as somehow being better than the known consequences of gasoline and diesel cars. Today we just ship car batteries oversees to be scrapped for parts in the cheapest possible way by children. That doesn't sound good to me at all.

StavrosK 5y ago
Is the energy required to ride a bike somehow free? How do you ride a bike for hundreds of kilometers? > People that really care about the environment ride a bike. They don't buy an electric car and try to justify the currently unknown long term environmental consequences of their purchase as somehow being better than the known consequences of gasoline and diesel cars. This is so much false dichotomy that I'm having trouble assuming good faith.
- mrob 5y ago
  Humans require exercise to maintain good health. The energy required to ride a bike replaces energy that would otherwise be wasted on exercise equipment in a gym.
  - StavrosK 5y ago
    So you'd only ride for an hour a day, and you'd stop where you were and take a taxi the rest of the way, or what?
    - mrob 5y ago
      If it's too far to ride then a taxi (ideally, an electric vehicle) is a reasonable option. It's even reasonable to stop where you are and switch to a taxi. I don't know if it's possible with Uber or similar, but with traditional taxi operators you can call them and arrange for them to carry the bicycle too. The front wheel will have a quick release mechanism, and you can put down some sheeting to protect the interior of the taxi from grease/oil, or they might have an exterior bicycle carrier frame. But this will only be a minority of journeys.
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      Myself, I ride my bike to work and back (about 25 mins each way) and around the local area, otherwise I use the excellent public transport in my city (mostly electric-powered trains and occasionally electric/hybrid buses). If I need to go out-of-city, I use mostly-electric trains.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  >How do you ride a bike for hundreds of kilometers? In many parts of the world, you would take a train or other forms of public transport to travel distances too far to ride by bike. Those often have last-mile problems when the train doesn't go quite where you need it to, but given sufficient density at the source/destination bikes are an effective solution to the last-mile problem. Of course, in the US, we typically have sprawl at the source/destination, unsafe infrastructure for bicycling, and often not-very-useful public transport, which does rather limit this option.
gambiting 5y ago
>>The claim that electric cars are good for the environment is a lie. They are not "good", they are not even "neutral". They are "bad". So....exactly like normal cars then? Buying a brand new car is bad for the environment, full stop, ICE or EV. The statement above makes sense if taken in isolation - take an existing ICE car and an existing EV car - the EV car is undoubtedly better for the environment, there is no discussion. But it would also be a lot better if neither existed, as manufacturing new cars is EXTREMELY wasteful and produces incredible amounts of CO2 debt, again, EV or not. >>oday we just ship car batteries oversees to be scrapped for parts in the cheapest possible way by children. As opposed to stripping out electronics and precious metals from ICE cars, which is only ever done by well regulated workers in rich western countries, right? /s Like, come on - I get your point. Shitty "recycling" practices exist. That doesn't mean that's the standard or the default, and it definitely can be fixed going forward. We aren't destined or doomed to only recycle our lithium batteries with 10 year old children with rocks, and for some reason you're framing it as if that's the only available method.
- zajd 5y ago
  > Shitty "recycling" practices exist. That doesn't mean that's the standard or the default Who wants to tell him?
imtringued 5y ago
Buying a car or riding a bike isn't a choice. It's something forced upon residents by the local zoning plan.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  In many places people can make the choice to bicycle. That they don't choose it is why so few places have infrastructure for bicycling.
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    I live in one of the few places in the US that has the geography and density to make bike commuting one of the fastest and most efficient ways to get around. I would gladly ride a bike almost everywhere if it were safer. I don't, because I don't feel like putting my life at risk on a regular basis just to get where I need to go. There's a reason that bike ridership skyrockets when useful protected bike infrastructure gets installed. The demand is there.
  - volta83 5y ago
    Also many people can make a choice to where they live. Not all, but many.
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      Sadly many places impose tight limits (via zoning) on the total number of people who can live in a specific area.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Its been claimed that riding a bike is the worst thing you can do for the environment. The fuel for a human is the most ecologically disastrous fuel we make. Billions of acres clearcut; chemicals in the soil and air; CO2 by the gigaton. No, increasing human output has the largest impact on CO2 we could create.
- poopypoopington 5y ago
  This is wrong and stupid
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Look into it before posting insult, perhaps? Its reasonable, arguable, and probably right.
    - endemic 5y ago
      Your argument boils down to "people are bad for the environment." True, but not helpful.
      - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
        Boils down to "Riding a bike instead of driving a car is a net negative for the environment". Reframing or changing the subject doesn't affect that.
    - rspeele 5y ago
      I think it's a clever point, but it falls flat for me on closer inspection because: #1: The whole point of preserving the environment is to keep it inhabitable for humans. Fueling humans is non-negotiable up to at least a baseline level of survival, and still desirable beyond that level because we like being well fed. and #2: Due to that whole "we like being well fed" thing, most humans in the first world -- the part of the world where people worry about things like whether biking to work is good or bad for the environment -- are already overfueled. We have a surplus of human fuel that we're consuming anyway because it feels good. Might as well burn some of it off on transportation.

StavrosK 5y ago

Is the energy required to ride a bike somehow free? How do you ride a bike for hundreds of kilometers? > People that really care about the environment ride a bike. They don't buy an electric car and try to justify the currently unknown long term environmental consequences of their purchase as somehow being better than the known consequences of gasoline and diesel cars. This is so much false dichotomy that I'm having trouble assuming good faith.

mrob 5y ago
Humans require exercise to maintain good health. The energy required to ride a bike replaces energy that would otherwise be wasted on exercise equipment in a gym.
- StavrosK 5y ago
  So you'd only ride for an hour a day, and you'd stop where you were and take a taxi the rest of the way, or what?
  - mrob 5y ago
    If it's too far to ride then a taxi (ideally, an electric vehicle) is a reasonable option. It's even reasonable to stop where you are and switch to a taxi. I don't know if it's possible with Uber or similar, but with traditional taxi operators you can call them and arrange for them to carry the bicycle too. The front wheel will have a quick release mechanism, and you can put down some sheeting to protect the interior of the taxi from grease/oil, or they might have an exterior bicycle carrier frame. But this will only be a minority of journeys.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Myself, I ride my bike to work and back (about 25 mins each way) and around the local area, otherwise I use the excellent public transport in my city (mostly electric-powered trains and occasionally electric/hybrid buses). If I need to go out-of-city, I use mostly-electric trains.
ryukafalz 5y ago
>How do you ride a bike for hundreds of kilometers? In many parts of the world, you would take a train or other forms of public transport to travel distances too far to ride by bike. Those often have last-mile problems when the train doesn't go quite where you need it to, but given sufficient density at the source/destination bikes are an effective solution to the last-mile problem. Of course, in the US, we typically have sprawl at the source/destination, unsafe infrastructure for bicycling, and often not-very-useful public transport, which does rather limit this option.

gambiting 5y ago

>>The claim that electric cars are good for the environment is a lie. They are not "good", they are not even "neutral". They are "bad". So....exactly like normal cars then? Buying a brand new car is bad for the environment, full stop, ICE or EV. The statement above makes sense if taken in isolation - take an existing ICE car and an existing EV car - the EV car is undoubtedly better for the environment, there is no discussion. But it would also be a lot better if neither existed, as manufacturing new cars is EXTREMELY wasteful and produces incredible amounts of CO2 debt, again, EV or not. >>oday we just ship car batteries oversees to be scrapped for parts in the cheapest possible way by children. As opposed to stripping out electronics and precious metals from ICE cars, which is only ever done by well regulated workers in rich western countries, right? /s Like, come on - I get your point. Shitty "recycling" practices exist. That doesn't mean that's the standard or the default, and it definitely can be fixed going forward. We aren't destined or doomed to only recycle our lithium batteries with 10 year old children with rocks, and for some reason you're framing it as if that's the only available method.

zajd 5y ago
> Shitty "recycling" practices exist. That doesn't mean that's the standard or the default Who wants to tell him?

imtringued 5y ago

Buying a car or riding a bike isn't a choice. It's something forced upon residents by the local zoning plan.

SyzygistSix 5y ago
In many places people can make the choice to bicycle. That they don't choose it is why so few places have infrastructure for bicycling.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  I live in one of the few places in the US that has the geography and density to make bike commuting one of the fastest and most efficient ways to get around. I would gladly ride a bike almost everywhere if it were safer. I don't, because I don't feel like putting my life at risk on a regular basis just to get where I need to go. There's a reason that bike ridership skyrockets when useful protected bike infrastructure gets installed. The demand is there.
- volta83 5y ago
  Also many people can make a choice to where they live. Not all, but many.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    Sadly many places impose tight limits (via zoning) on the total number of people who can live in a specific area.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Its been claimed that riding a bike is the worst thing you can do for the environment. The fuel for a human is the most ecologically disastrous fuel we make. Billions of acres clearcut; chemicals in the soil and air; CO2 by the gigaton. No, increasing human output has the largest impact on CO2 we could create.

poopypoopington 5y ago
This is wrong and stupid
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Look into it before posting insult, perhaps? Its reasonable, arguable, and probably right.
  - endemic 5y ago
    Your argument boils down to "people are bad for the environment." True, but not helpful.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      Boils down to "Riding a bike instead of driving a car is a net negative for the environment". Reframing or changing the subject doesn't affect that.
  - rspeele 5y ago
    I think it's a clever point, but it falls flat for me on closer inspection because: #1: The whole point of preserving the environment is to keep it inhabitable for humans. Fueling humans is non-negotiable up to at least a baseline level of survival, and still desirable beyond that level because we like being well fed. and #2: Due to that whole "we like being well fed" thing, most humans in the first world -- the part of the world where people worry about things like whether biking to work is good or bad for the environment -- are already overfueled. We have a surplus of human fuel that we're consuming anyway because it feels good. Might as well burn some of it off on transportation.