4 ms·

For sure - at least with the parts in their current form. A simple flip-flop takes up a minimum space of about 30 cm x 30 cm. But I wonder how small these parts

For sure - at least with the parts in their current form. A simple flip-flop takes up a minimum space of about 30 cm x 30 cm. But I wonder how small these parts could get. Like, what if spintronics was invented in the 19th century instead of the 21st century? Would Moore's law have applied to mechanical transistors?

dekhn 5y ago
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_the_Bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_th... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation TL;DR we're nowhere close to exploiting the full potential of nanoscale mechanical systems.
- mdaniel 5y ago
  For those who don't click on the Engines of Creation link, be aware that at the bottom of that page is a PDF link to the gratis version of Engines of Creation 2.0 from 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20140810022659/http://www1.appstate.edu/dept/physics/nanotech/EnginesofCreation2_8803267.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140810022659/http://www1.appst... Since I just now learned about that link, I haven't read the book to know, but I have always been interested in finding out if the ability to create smaller and smaller machines is possible by having an outer machine which manufactures an inner, smaller, copy of itself, apply the process of induction, define the termination criteria, ..., profit! Or, maybe I'm thinking about the problem all wrong -- it's not the actual construction machinery that's the problem, it's providing the input materials to each step (gears, levers, fasteners, wiring(?), etc) There's a Factorio-clone hiding in this problem ...
  - lazide 5y ago
    The issue is that scaling does not produce linear effects as you go down (or up) for a number of reasons. What works at the meter scale doesn’t work at the millimeter scale, which doesn’t work at the micrometer scale, etc. So you end up having to learn an experiment at a more and more difficult to access scale to figure out how to make something actually work. That’s real life anyway.
  - rusticpenn 5y ago
    MEMS started out to cater to this dream, unfortunately problems like stiction (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/stiction https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/stiction) have been blockers until now.
  - AriedK 5y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation. That cover though, is that topology specific to a coronavirus or do more viruses share it? Especially since the Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna vaccines deploy nano-particles for delivering their payload.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    the reality is that it turned out to be easier to make things with lithography, and we don't need to pantograph our way to the bottom (whew!). Many cell phones now have sensors that are mems-based, built using lithography (accelerometers being the best example). In many senses, we've started to achieve the goals of the book. You might also enjoy Diamond Age.
    - mdaniel 5y ago
      I did enjoy Diamond Age, maybe I should reread it! It was the first time I had ever heard of "reversible computing" and (ahem) I still don't understand it, but it's good to know such a thing exists I'm about 175 pages into that PDF and am now sorry that I drew attention to it. I was beguiled by the name recognition and the snazzy title, but I find the text filled with hand-wavery and aspirational thinking, and it also seems to focus a lot more on DNA than I would have expected I also find even their aspirations suspicious that any such machinery could ever possibly exist to just tweezer atoms around like marbles and voila gold from lead!
      - webmaven 5y ago
        > I also find even their aspirations suspicious that any such machinery could ever possibly exist to just tweezer atoms around like marbles We can already push atoms around with macro-scale actuators that have nano-scale accuracy (which is clumsy, to be sure), and there is little doubt that the hardware to do so will get smaller and more capable over time.

dekhn 5y ago

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_the_Bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_th... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation TL;DR we're nowhere close to exploiting the full potential of nanoscale mechanical systems.

mdaniel 5y ago
For those who don't click on the Engines of Creation link, be aware that at the bottom of that page is a PDF link to the gratis version of Engines of Creation 2.0 from 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20140810022659/http://www1.appstate.edu/dept/physics/nanotech/EnginesofCreation2_8803267.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140810022659/http://www1.appst... Since I just now learned about that link, I haven't read the book to know, but I have always been interested in finding out if the ability to create smaller and smaller machines is possible by having an outer machine which manufactures an inner, smaller, copy of itself, apply the process of induction, define the termination criteria, ..., profit! Or, maybe I'm thinking about the problem all wrong -- it's not the actual construction machinery that's the problem, it's providing the input materials to each step (gears, levers, fasteners, wiring(?), etc) There's a Factorio-clone hiding in this problem ...
- lazide 5y ago
  The issue is that scaling does not produce linear effects as you go down (or up) for a number of reasons. What works at the meter scale doesn’t work at the millimeter scale, which doesn’t work at the micrometer scale, etc. So you end up having to learn an experiment at a more and more difficult to access scale to figure out how to make something actually work. That’s real life anyway.
- rusticpenn 5y ago
  MEMS started out to cater to this dream, unfortunately problems like stiction (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/stiction https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/stiction) have been blockers until now.
- AriedK 5y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. That cover though, is that topology specific to a coronavirus or do more viruses share it? Especially since the Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna vaccines deploy nano-particles for delivering their payload.
- dekhn 5y ago
  the reality is that it turned out to be easier to make things with lithography, and we don't need to pantograph our way to the bottom (whew!). Many cell phones now have sensors that are mems-based, built using lithography (accelerometers being the best example). In many senses, we've started to achieve the goals of the book. You might also enjoy Diamond Age.
  - mdaniel 5y ago
    I did enjoy Diamond Age, maybe I should reread it! It was the first time I had ever heard of "reversible computing" and (ahem) I still don't understand it, but it's good to know such a thing exists I'm about 175 pages into that PDF and am now sorry that I drew attention to it. I was beguiled by the name recognition and the snazzy title, but I find the text filled with hand-wavery and aspirational thinking, and it also seems to focus a lot more on DNA than I would have expected I also find even their aspirations suspicious that any such machinery could ever possibly exist to just tweezer atoms around like marbles and voila gold from lead!
    - webmaven 5y ago
      > I also find even their aspirations suspicious that any such machinery could ever possibly exist to just tweezer atoms around like marbles We can already push atoms around with macro-scale actuators that have nano-scale accuracy (which is clumsy, to be sure), and there is little doubt that the hardware to do so will get smaller and more capable over time.