5 ms·

Ok, not sure why you brought up black people here. I'm black btw, but my grandparents were able to save for retirement quite well, despite whatever racism they

Ok, not sure why you brought up black people here. I'm black btw, but my grandparents were able to save for retirement quite well, despite whatever racism they faced. Same with my parents. Wisdom > racism.

ep103 5y ago
> Wisdom > racism. America is no longer a de jure segregated society. America is generally meritocratic, and with the right combination of intelligence, hard work, and luck, people of all types, races and creeds can succeed and do well. I believe that that is orthogonal to my comment above. > Ok, not sure why you brought up black people here. Because while historically racism has taken many forms in this country, against and by many groups, over many shifting definitions of race, and with many political implications, historically, many of the most politically influential racist policies were motivated by racism along the black/white divide. But you are right, it is not, and has never been, just limited to these two "races". Again, please reference the Lee Atwater quote below.
Aeolun 5y ago
Of course it’s possible, but I think the parent is right in that you have to go further/do more to get to the same point.
brnt 5y ago
He's saying that a significant part of Americans wants to make that more difficult for you, not easier. Same with gun violence, which affects mostly black americans. And healthcare. Etc. Either all of this is an extraordinary coincidence, or there in fact is a significant fraction of americans that are motivated by an antipathy for black people. An interesting start is to see who's funding all of that privatized politics (such as NRA) and what motivates them. If you've never looked into this, hold on to your hat.
- kingsuper20 5y ago
  >He's saying that a significant part of Americans wants to make that more difficult for you, not easier. I'd say that a significant part of Americans are simply indifferent. That can be easily confused for ill will.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > significant fraction of americans that are motivated by an antipathy for black people And that fraction is probably bigger than you expect. Everyone thinks their side is not racist. Gun control advocates never talk about banning .22 and .25 pistols, even though that is what really kills a lot of people. But most of those people are black. Instead, gun control advocates want to go after AR-15s. It's like they don't want to win.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    I agree that the focus on "assault rifles" is weird and misguided, but I don't think this is an entirely fair characterization of gun control. in most states, even those with onerous laws for long guns, it is substantially harder to get any pistol than it is to get a semi-automatic rifle. you might need to get a rifle with a weird combination of features (california) or avoid specific models (maryland), but you don't have to jump through the same amount of legal hoops as you do when buying a handgun.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      > substantially harder to get any pistol That makes sense, though? It is far easier to conceal a handgun than any kind of rifle, and [to a close approximation] all guns are semi-automatic at most. A rifle may pack more punch, but I'd be more afraid of someone packing a Glock 17 (especially if they brought along a Glock 18 magazine). In any case, the point I was trying to make is one of intent. We have stats which tell us where the low-hanging fruit is on the issue, but nobody seems interested in that.
      - leetcrew 5y ago
        right, that's my point. many more people are killed with handguns. the public discussion has a weird fixation on certain rifle features, but most of the actual laws are concerned with handguns, as they should be. if you want a semi-automatic rifle chambered for an intermediate cartridge, you can usually get that without too much hassle.
Context_free 5y ago
Here is the transcription of an audio interview with former Republican National Committee chairman Lee Atwater Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps? Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it.

ep103 5y ago

> Wisdom > racism. America is no longer a de jure segregated society. America is generally meritocratic, and with the right combination of intelligence, hard work, and luck, people of all types, races and creeds can succeed and do well. I believe that that is orthogonal to my comment above. > Ok, not sure why you brought up black people here. Because while historically racism has taken many forms in this country, against and by many groups, over many shifting definitions of race, and with many political implications, historically, many of the most politically influential racist policies were motivated by racism along the black/white divide. But you are right, it is not, and has never been, just limited to these two "races". Again, please reference the Lee Atwater quote below.

Aeolun 5y ago

Of course it’s possible, but I think the parent is right in that you have to go further/do more to get to the same point.

brnt 5y ago

He's saying that a significant part of Americans wants to make that more difficult for you, not easier. Same with gun violence, which affects mostly black americans. And healthcare. Etc. Either all of this is an extraordinary coincidence, or there in fact is a significant fraction of americans that are motivated by an antipathy for black people. An interesting start is to see who's funding all of that privatized politics (such as NRA) and what motivates them. If you've never looked into this, hold on to your hat.

kingsuper20 5y ago
>He's saying that a significant part of Americans wants to make that more difficult for you, not easier. I'd say that a significant part of Americans are simply indifferent. That can be easily confused for ill will.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> significant fraction of americans that are motivated by an antipathy for black people And that fraction is probably bigger than you expect. Everyone thinks their side is not racist. Gun control advocates never talk about banning .22 and .25 pistols, even though that is what really kills a lot of people. But most of those people are black. Instead, gun control advocates want to go after AR-15s. It's like they don't want to win.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  I agree that the focus on "assault rifles" is weird and misguided, but I don't think this is an entirely fair characterization of gun control. in most states, even those with onerous laws for long guns, it is substantially harder to get any pistol than it is to get a semi-automatic rifle. you might need to get a rifle with a weird combination of features (california) or avoid specific models (maryland), but you don't have to jump through the same amount of legal hoops as you do when buying a handgun.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    > substantially harder to get any pistol That makes sense, though? It is far easier to conceal a handgun than any kind of rifle, and [to a close approximation] all guns are semi-automatic at most. A rifle may pack more punch, but I'd be more afraid of someone packing a Glock 17 (especially if they brought along a Glock 18 magazine). In any case, the point I was trying to make is one of intent. We have stats which tell us where the low-hanging fruit is on the issue, but nobody seems interested in that.
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      right, that's my point. many more people are killed with handguns. the public discussion has a weird fixation on certain rifle features, but most of the actual laws are concerned with handguns, as they should be. if you want a semi-automatic rifle chambered for an intermediate cartridge, you can usually get that without too much hassle.

Context_free 5y ago

Here is the transcription of an audio interview with former Republican National Committee chairman Lee Atwater Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps? Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it.