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Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck
- Animats 5y agoStarts just under $40K. Before federal EV incentive payments. Compares to $30.6K for the 2022 gas version. After incentives, the difference is only about $2.5K. This is when electric vehicles really start taking over.
- jeremiahhs 5y agoThe 40k version isn't available until 5/24 ( 3 years), and it's a commercial variant, not retail.
- clouddrover 5y agoI think that's the 24th of May, not May in 2024. They were talking about when you can place reservations and the details of each trim level.
- reitzensteinm 5y agoYour previous comment was complaining about Tesla FUD. So are you spreading Ford FUD here, and if not, what's the difference? Genuinely curious.
- wazokazi 5y agoAre incentives even necessary anymore? Regardless, this just shows how well Ford understands the truck market. This will sell like hot cakes, and they will have trouble keeping up with demand.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoEVs are currently 5% of annual sales. They need to be 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035. Yea, incentives are still necessary, but higher taxes on combustion vehicles as well.
- mcrutcher 5y agoIf they're almost at cost parity now it seems like a sure bet that you'd have to have a very abnormal use case to consider a gas vehicle 5 years from now.
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- perl4ever 5y agoPeople buying brand new $40-60K vehicles are not representative of the general driving population.
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- rs999gti 5y ago> This is when electric vehicles really start taking over. Price is one aspect, the other is looks. This looks like a truck and probably drives and handles like a truck. Truck buyers are already financing $60K trucks, this design being exactly like a body on frame F150 makes the decision easier.
- youeseh 5y agoUnlike a Tesla, your Ford's price isn't going to be the same as the MSRP. Dealers will charge what they think they can sell the vehicle for. If the demand is high, there will be a markup.
- clouddrover 5y agoIf they do, talk to Ford about it. It's worked before: https://www.thedrive.com/news/39720/ford-wipes-out-10000-dealer-markup-on-mustang-mach-e-after-twitter-protests https://www.thedrive.com/news/39720/ford-wipes-out-10000-dea...
- zikduruqe 5y agoHopefully manufacturers can start selling direct to consumers, versus having to go through a dealer (varies state to state). That would take out the middleman. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/2015/05/direct-consumer-auto-sales-its-not-just-about-tesla https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/20...
- brianwawok 5y agoI don’t think the legacy automakers can. They are in too deep with dealers. Up to a new wave of automakers to take over.
- URSpider94 5y agoThe contracts that dealerships have with the manufacturers would most likely prevent direct sales. It’s still illegal in some states, but even in the ones where it’s legal, the dealers would sue them for massive damages if they try to invalidate their franchise agreements.
- clouddrover 5y agoIt isn't Ford's first electric pickup truck. Ford did an electric Ranger in 1997: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-ranger-ev-is-a-forgotten-ford-futuremobile/ https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-ranger-ev-is-a-for...
- thrower123 5y agoAnything less than a 500 mile range makes this a nonstarter compared to ICE models. Although from what I've read elsewhere they are putting nearly a ton (1800 pounds) of batteries in the thing. There are people who use trucks as commuters, but there are also people that are on the road or out in the puckerbrush actually working out of them. Charging infrastructure is not good, and not likely to get better overnight. I think it would make a lot more sense to build a hybrid diesel to fit in this niche. Particularly if it had enough excess output to run some jobsite equipment. If you don't need to buy a Lincoln generator to run compressors or welders, that would be a tradeoff that would be beneficial.
- canadianfella 5y ago> 500 mile range makes this a nonstarter compared to ICE models Why?
- brianwawok 5y agoHave a 300 mile range EV. Drive it all over the country. Tesla will sell a million of these things in the next year. We must have missed then 500 mile requirement.
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- kasey_junk 5y agoMore interesting in the context of an f150 are fleet vehicles that never see anywhere near that requirement before parking for the night. Fleet sales are going to be the dominant variable for this truck.
- SigmundA 5y agoDiesel already increases cost and weight over gas and are pretty efficient which is why you don't see any hybrids. Electric motors don't compliment diesel like they do gas which can go Atkinson cycle allowing the gas motor to get diesel like efficiency while making up the loss in torque with electric.
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- plondon514 5y agoThe reason we ended up with a Tesla, instead of a Kona electric, or any other EV, is the charging network. Where do you charge this thing and how long does it take? “You can only charge at home” doesn’t work for everyone. Maybe it does for this market though?
- aynyc 5y agoWith the amount of GOOD EV coming to market, I think a lot of places (gas stations, etc) can quickly pivot to support charging stations, assuming incentives align with them. It's naturally for a lot of places with free parking (such as strip malls) to rent out the parking spaces to charging providers for extra cash. Just like cell towers.
- mint2 5y agoI don’t think gas stations are set up for this. Who wants to spend 25 minutes hanging out in a gas station convenience store? Cafes or any other place to relax for 25 minutes seems the fuel station of the future.
- b3morales 5y agoI would assume gas stations will start adding waiting room space, like you see in tire shops, car washes, etc. Of course they might do even better to add a more coffee shop kind of thing, so they can also sell you a muffin or something while you wait.
- sf_rob 5y agoThere's already a shift to customer experience oriented gas stations on road trip routes. I would happily spend a half hour at a Sheetz, Buckees, Wawa, etc. I'd prefer a proper restaurant but there's room for both.
- aynyc 5y agoWith EV charging stations, you don't need the expensive environmental cost of having gasoline and cost of operations. You can lease out a few parking spaces in your business (cafe, grocery, bookstores) parking lots and take a part of the profits of charging stations.
- SigmundA 5y agoLooks like roughly 130kwh battery for 230 miles and 180kwh for 300 miles. Large battery is 1800lbs, about twice the size and weight of a Model 3 battery. Towing range is always a problem with BEV's, to get good range they they usually focus on aerodynamics and rolling resistance which towing completely destroys. Estimates are it will be under 100 miles range towing its maximum of 10,000lbs with the big battery. Starting at $40k its easy to see how fast battery prices are falling, being a large part of the cost, it feels a lot like how quickly solar panel prices fell. Main issue is still energy density, both size and weight, which is going up albeit more slowly than cost is going down and it's being somewhat setback by everyone trying to move away from cobalt. Other interesting features, all models dual motor 4WD, independent rear suspension with locker, built in scale to measure payload and tongue wieght, 9.6kw of inverter power for running AC loads off battery, optional 240v home charger that can also feed power back to a sub panel with auto switchover to act as power backup.
- frayesto 5y agoI think that 1800lbs is actually the weight capacity of the truck if I'm reading the article correctly. I'm trying to find the mass of the battery to compare the energy density to the Tesla battery packs
- SigmundA 5y ago"The batteries alone weigh about 1,800 pounds, Ford officials told President Joe Biden during a tour of the Rouge Complex in Dearborn, Michigan, where the truck will be assembled." https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-first-look-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-el... The cargo capacity also happens to be 1800 lbs with the large battery and 2000 lbs with the smaller battery. They mentioned using less cobalt so it may not be as energy dense as top of the line NMC cells. The lithium iron Tesla packs are 20% less dense than the cobalt ones.
- theluketaylor 5y agoThe feature list is fantastic, especially since Ford leaned into the EV-ness with powering the home and so many outlets in the bed and frunk. They came so close to nailing it, but the charge curve is simply not acceptable. 41 minutes for 15-80% is way, way too long. Hyundai Ionic 5 is the same starting price and is close to 20 minutes. The F-150 has a much bigger battery, but that should also mean it can maintain the a high charge rate for longer before tapering. Ford not using 800V is going to come back to haunt them.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoThis is needed ASAP to help the ice>ev transition speed up. Automakers should work together and just support Tesla charging stations. This would benefit everyone.
- clouddrover 5y agoEveryone else is working together. They're using CCS. Even Nissan has switched to CCS. The only laggard at this point is Tesla. Tesla switched to CCS in Europe. When will they switch to CCS in North America?
- maxharris 5y agoTesla is the de facto standard. It has the largest charging network. This will not change because vertical integration is the best way to deliver a smooth experience at the best price to the customer, especially when technology is evolving rapidly, as is the case here.
- clouddrover 5y ago> Tesla is the de facto standard. Not when other EVs can't charge on their chargers it isn't.
- maxharris 5y agoTesla has offered other companies access for years, and very few have accepted it: https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/22/tesla-superchargers-already-open-to-other-electric-cars/ https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/22/tesla-superchargers-alr...
- evgen 5y agoIt's almost like everyone else is working together to create the actual de facto standard and Tesla can join or stay out in the cold. If one company is doing X and a lot of other companies are collectively doing Y then X is not the standard...
- aynyc 5y agoI have to give Ford credit. I thought it was a mistake to make EV for its well-loved and respected product line (Mustang & F150) instead of striking out on a new product line. So far, the Mach-E has rave reviews, it seems F150 will as well. It actually looks like Ford has a strategy for once.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago>the Mach-E has rave reviews, Lots of things get rave reviews but don't sell very well (or vise versa). >It actually looks like Ford has a strategy for once. Last time they had a strategy it was their "global Ford" shtick from the 90s an '00s. That didn't turn out well. They spent the 90s killing or not developing product lines that turned out to be what '00s consumers wanted and spent the '00s playing catch up.
- mc32 5y agoThe Mondeo strategy and their “Firestone” stupidity (blaming a third party for their design weakness) did then in for a while.
- rasz 5y ago>Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning Reality: Ford confirms existence of at least one prototype, after President has been filmed driving one.
- danans 5y agoThey've announced the entire product line with every trim level. It's hardly just a prototype.
- theluketaylor 5y agoFord came so close to nailing it. They are doing a special EV frame, including the first independent rear suspension for F-150. 300 mile range available is great. Packaging everything extremely well to offer 400 litres in the frunk is an absolute game changer for truck owners. Re-using the F-150 body shell keeps costs down and allows them to easily provide interior feature parity. 9.6 kW to run your home and tons of 20 amp plugs to run tools and tailgating is brilliant. 10,000 lbs towing and 1800-2000 lbs payload is great. Then they fell flat on their faces: 41 minutes 15-80% charging. That charging curve is simply not acceptable when Hyundai's Ionic 5 has the same starting price and is about 20 minutes 10-80%.
- URSpider94 5y agoThe F-150 has a battery that’s between 50% and 100% bigger than the battery in the Ioniq 5.
- mcot2 5y agoThus the charging curve should be better and not worse.
- CyberDildonics 5y agoIt has a giant battery in it. It already takes 150kw to charge it that fast.
- obloid 5y agoI was really excited about this truck until I saw they went the Tesla route with the giant touchscreen in the middle of the console. Do they think that this what EV buyers want because Tesla has it? I want a vehicle with simple tactile controls just like my ICE vehicle, but electric. Maybe I'm in the minority.
- stetrain 5y agoBase model and XLT have a 12" display with the physical A/C controls below it, same as what's in the normal F-150.
- obloid 5y agoThanks, I missed that.
- lostlogin 5y agoThat’s still a ludicrously large display. My laptop is 13” and I’d vary rarely want a screen larger, and certainly never in a car.
- stetrain 5y agoIt's a ludicrously large truck, so it seems mostly proportional. https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/0mRz9/s1/2021-ford-f-150.jpg https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/0mRz9/s1/2021-ford-f-150.j...
- achenatx 5y agovolume and tuning should be dials. I dislike touch screens too. My tundra has the perfect UI for climate and audio
- thebruce87m 5y agoTactile controls and an empty double-din slot to allow me to fit in whatever third party media player I choose. I don’t want <car manufacturers> bug ridden “radio” thank you very much.
- oflannabhra 5y agoIf they come out with a utility van version of this (ie, Transit), I can see it becoming quite popular. With the onboard inverter and 240V, there are a ton of trades and custom campers that would immediately find use for that. It would be really cool to see a solar trickle charge setup for #vanlife
- lttlrck 5y agoThe E-Transit is featured toward the end of the video. https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-transit/2022/ https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-transit/2022/