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I used to live near Market/Van Ness. Pre pandemic when I needed to pick up medicine I had to go to two Walgreens before walking another mile to end up at CVS t

I used to live near Market/Van Ness. Pre pandemic when I needed to pick up medicine I had to go to two Walgreens before walking another mile to end up at CVS to find what I needed because half the shelves were empty at both the Walgreens I went to (one oh Market, the other in Hayes). I asked an employee what was going on, I thought they must be closing. She said no it’s because of all the shoplifting and that there’s nothing they can do about it and the police don’t care either. As she was telling me this I witnessed a guy in the aisle loading up a suitcase. Unbelievable. I told her I’m sorry she has to deal with this all the time. It’s also frustrating as a consumer because I’ve noticed over the past couple years Walgreens’ hours has been reducing, like closing at 7pm at a major intersection for crying out loud. The trend is that operating expenses are increased due to shoplifting thus prices increase and hours reduced which means fewer jobs. We all lose. This isn’t unique to Walgreens this is affecting independent convenience stores and markets as well and it’s really disheartening to witness on a nearly day to day basis.

tdeck 5y ago
I can't help but wonder if this is one of the ways the police "get back" at our local DA (whom they obviously don't like). If the police simply refuse to respond to crimes, they can then blame the increased crime rate on the DA.
- dkasper 5y ago
  It's not exactly getting back. If the DA isn't going to do anything why would you arrest someone?
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  I can't speak to SF, but this is exactly the dynamic that's been happening for years up here in Portland. The PPA tells officers to slow roll on crimes that create political pressure every time a candidate for mayor or council that will reform them appears viable. Sadly it's a very effective tactic.
  - kayfox 5y ago
    The police have given up on property crimes in Seattle for the most part, and the shoplifting has in some cases gotten quite brazen and violent.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Based on how weak Portland is on prosecutions, can you blame them? I mean, why arrest and book if they are out on the street that afternoon?
    - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
      That's not what's driving the dynamic here, particularly since the election of our current DA. He wants to hold the police accountable and they're at all out war vs him.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  It's not to "get back" at the DA or because the police don't like him. It's to best utilize their finite resources. There's no point in wasting time arresting people whom the DA is basically certain to immediately drop the charges against.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    There's no point in "wasting time" stopping someone from walking out of a store with a suitcase full of stolen goods? Seems to me like that's a worthwhile service to provide whether or not you can rack up some vanity points with a conviction.
    - kayfox 5y ago
      Are you expecting police to be posted at the doors of all these stores?
      - tdeck 5y ago
        Of course not, my point is that there are things the police can do without a conviction, and they do those things in many circumstances. For example, police can famously seize property they believe was involved in a crime. If it were truly impossible to follow up on someone stealing in broad daylight, that would be the case whether they could secure a conviction or not. If there are officers nearby (as there often are near downtown Walgreens), you might think they would respond once in a while. Presumably they are not, or the staff wouldn't be under the impression that they "don't care".
      - pie420 5y ago
        Yes, because crime is so bad that almost every department, convenience, and grocery store has armed security patrolling outside and guarding the entrance. This isn't a thing in other cities. Even in the south side of Chicago. As a new transplant to SF it seems like shoplifting is actually encouraged here. If I was poor and broke, i would 100% be shoplifting every day. Could probably make a pretty easy 50k a year shoplifting tactically.
- gfody 5y ago
  I'm thinking the police aren't involved what-so-ever and this is more about the shop owners' senioritis now that their mission to deliver huge amounts of opioids into suburban areas[1] has been accomplished and it's time to go home. [1] https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2020/11/17/down_here_they_sometimes_call_it_boy_585675.html https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2020/11/17/down_here...
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  San Francisco famously will not prosecute thefts under some large amount of money in damages (I think it's like $1000). Why would police go through all the trouble to arrest someone who the state is going to let go of anyways?
- hedora 5y ago
  The article claims this is a direct result of Prop 47, which lowered penalties for shoplifting stuff worth less than $950. Organized crime groups just steal $949 per person from each store, and hit multiple stores in a day. The law makes it difficult for the police to prosecute them — a given person would need to be caught and prosecuted once for multiple crimes (that were probably committed in multiple districts, etc.). Even then, with all that effort, they get to bust someone for shoplifting. They could go after the leaders of the organized crime groups. I wonder why they haven’t.
  - koolba 5y ago
    > They could go after the leaders of the organized crime groups. I wonder why they haven’t. The standard approach is to charge the lackeys and have them roll on their superiors. If the only threat to the lackeys is a slap on the wrist, they’re not going to rat out anybody.
    - diogenescynic 5y ago
      Considering consumer tech like Apple Airtags exist, it seems like it’d be easy to tag some frequently stolen goods and track them back to where they’re fenced and resold. They should punish the buyers of stolen goods since they obviously aren’t going after the thieves.
      - thatguy0900 5y ago
        It's these areas it's not politically possible to prosecute the thieves. How will it be politically possible to prosecute the people just buying groceries?
- variable11 5y ago
  The police know the DA won't prosecute, this jurisdiction is a typical revolving door of criminality, but of course that doesn't fit your narrative, you should somehow blame Trump and Russia instead.
et-al 5y ago
> This isn’t unique to Walgreens this is affecting independent convenience stores and markets as well and it’s really disheartening to witness on a nearly day to day basis. This needs to be repeated. Some left leaning folks like to say "oh it's Walgreens, they're a corporation and the losses are immaterial." When this happens to independent mom & pop shops, they close up much sooner.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  The fact that anyone can see rampant crime in their community and think "that's okay, the victims of this crime are people I don't like anyway" and just ignore it is insane to me.
  - Pet_Ant 5y ago
    I think they see it as less crime as asset redistribution. The wealth that they feel ought to have been transferred by taxes is being taken more directly in the sense of Anatole France's "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor ... to steal bread." Nb: I am explaining a viewpoint not taking a position myself
  - tarsinge 5y ago
    I visited SF a few years ago on a road trip and was very shocked by all the smashed car windows and feared for my car. This third world vibe intertwined with pricey restaurants was unreal. Added on top of people screaming in the streets and a public freakout (of rich people) in a room in my hotel with police coming in the middle of the night, I ended up really scared of the craziness of that city.
    - danielrpa 5y ago
      An extreme contrast between poor and rich is common in third world countries. In many poor nations, you can find high end places for the ultra-wealthy not too far from slums. What I'm saying is that you're not seeing "third world intertwined with pricey restaurants", you're simply getting the full third world vibe in SF.
JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
Shouldn't a suitcase's worth of products be valuable enough to do something? I could somewhat understand ignoring say, if a person stole a single item under $10. There's not enough resources to go after truly petty theft. I'd be surprised if a suitcase-sized quantity of things didn't reach the $950 threshold.
- pedrosorio 5y ago
  The threshold is $950: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
  - JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
    Thanks, I have updated my comment with the figure.
    - thatguy0900 5y ago
      "I'd be surprised if a suitcase-sized quantity of things didn't reach the $950 threshold" how would that surprise you? A whole cart full of things is under 300.
      - Redoubts 5y ago
        of groceries, sure. Of liquor?
      - JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
        A 4-pack of razor cartridges is $20 at a convenience store. The markup means a relatively small volume of space can translate to rather significant dollar amounts. Lots of small, expensive products are sold inside these type of stores: makeup/beauty products, etc.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- diogenescynic 5y ago
hintymad 5y ago
I recall seeing an interview of random people in SF, and most of them say that this is simply redistribution of wealth for equity. Some politicians/pundits also publicly said last year that shoplifting or destroying properties are for social justice. So I guess SF progressives welcome shoplifting? Maybe there is a way to force Walgreen to reopen their stores for more wealth redistribution?
oceanghost 5y ago
In so cal there's a rather terrible chain of grocery stores called Stater Brothers. Like (nearly?) all grocery stores they have two entrances-- one that drops you into alcohol section, the other in the dairy. Theft of alcohol has become such a problem that they've started remodeling stores to remove the entrance directly in front of the alcohol. Meaning, if you now wish to steal alcohol, you have to enter from the opposite side of the building and walk behind or in front of 10 cashiers. I've witnessed many alcohol thefts in my day. The staff isn't authorized to stop the people (nor should they frankly), and the official position of the police department in my area is they do not respond to calls for anything less than an assault.

tdeck 5y ago

I can't help but wonder if this is one of the ways the police "get back" at our local DA (whom they obviously don't like). If the police simply refuse to respond to crimes, they can then blame the increased crime rate on the DA.

dkasper 5y ago
It's not exactly getting back. If the DA isn't going to do anything why would you arrest someone?
jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
I can't speak to SF, but this is exactly the dynamic that's been happening for years up here in Portland. The PPA tells officers to slow roll on crimes that create political pressure every time a candidate for mayor or council that will reform them appears viable. Sadly it's a very effective tactic.
- kayfox 5y ago
  The police have given up on property crimes in Seattle for the most part, and the shoplifting has in some cases gotten quite brazen and violent.
- refurb 5y ago
  Based on how weak Portland is on prosecutions, can you blame them? I mean, why arrest and book if they are out on the street that afternoon?
  - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
    That's not what's driving the dynamic here, particularly since the election of our current DA. He wants to hold the police accountable and they're at all out war vs him.
josephcsible 5y ago
It's not to "get back" at the DA or because the police don't like him. It's to best utilize their finite resources. There's no point in wasting time arresting people whom the DA is basically certain to immediately drop the charges against.
- tdeck 5y ago
  There's no point in "wasting time" stopping someone from walking out of a store with a suitcase full of stolen goods? Seems to me like that's a worthwhile service to provide whether or not you can rack up some vanity points with a conviction.
  - kayfox 5y ago
    Are you expecting police to be posted at the doors of all these stores?
    - tdeck 5y ago
      Of course not, my point is that there are things the police can do without a conviction, and they do those things in many circumstances. For example, police can famously seize property they believe was involved in a crime. If it were truly impossible to follow up on someone stealing in broad daylight, that would be the case whether they could secure a conviction or not. If there are officers nearby (as there often are near downtown Walgreens), you might think they would respond once in a while. Presumably they are not, or the staff wouldn't be under the impression that they "don't care".
    - pie420 5y ago
      Yes, because crime is so bad that almost every department, convenience, and grocery store has armed security patrolling outside and guarding the entrance. This isn't a thing in other cities. Even in the south side of Chicago. As a new transplant to SF it seems like shoplifting is actually encouraged here. If I was poor and broke, i would 100% be shoplifting every day. Could probably make a pretty easy 50k a year shoplifting tactically.
gfody 5y ago
I'm thinking the police aren't involved what-so-ever and this is more about the shop owners' senioritis now that their mission to deliver huge amounts of opioids into suburban areas[1] has been accomplished and it's time to go home. [1] https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2020/11/17/down_here_they_sometimes_call_it_boy_585675.html https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2020/11/17/down_here...
notsureaboutpg 5y ago
San Francisco famously will not prosecute thefts under some large amount of money in damages (I think it's like $1000). Why would police go through all the trouble to arrest someone who the state is going to let go of anyways?
hedora 5y ago
The article claims this is a direct result of Prop 47, which lowered penalties for shoplifting stuff worth less than $950. Organized crime groups just steal $949 per person from each store, and hit multiple stores in a day. The law makes it difficult for the police to prosecute them — a given person would need to be caught and prosecuted once for multiple crimes (that were probably committed in multiple districts, etc.). Even then, with all that effort, they get to bust someone for shoplifting. They could go after the leaders of the organized crime groups. I wonder why they haven’t.
- koolba 5y ago
  > They could go after the leaders of the organized crime groups. I wonder why they haven’t. The standard approach is to charge the lackeys and have them roll on their superiors. If the only threat to the lackeys is a slap on the wrist, they’re not going to rat out anybody.
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    Considering consumer tech like Apple Airtags exist, it seems like it’d be easy to tag some frequently stolen goods and track them back to where they’re fenced and resold. They should punish the buyers of stolen goods since they obviously aren’t going after the thieves.
    - thatguy0900 5y ago
      It's these areas it's not politically possible to prosecute the thieves. How will it be politically possible to prosecute the people just buying groceries?
variable11 5y ago
The police know the DA won't prosecute, this jurisdiction is a typical revolving door of criminality, but of course that doesn't fit your narrative, you should somehow blame Trump and Russia instead.

et-al 5y ago

> This isn’t unique to Walgreens this is affecting independent convenience stores and markets as well and it’s really disheartening to witness on a nearly day to day basis. This needs to be repeated. Some left leaning folks like to say "oh it's Walgreens, they're a corporation and the losses are immaterial." When this happens to independent mom & pop shops, they close up much sooner.

dahfizz 5y ago
The fact that anyone can see rampant crime in their community and think "that's okay, the victims of this crime are people I don't like anyway" and just ignore it is insane to me.
- Pet_Ant 5y ago
  I think they see it as less crime as asset redistribution. The wealth that they feel ought to have been transferred by taxes is being taken more directly in the sense of Anatole France's "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor ... to steal bread." Nb: I am explaining a viewpoint not taking a position myself
- tarsinge 5y ago
  I visited SF a few years ago on a road trip and was very shocked by all the smashed car windows and feared for my car. This third world vibe intertwined with pricey restaurants was unreal. Added on top of people screaming in the streets and a public freakout (of rich people) in a room in my hotel with police coming in the middle of the night, I ended up really scared of the craziness of that city.
  - danielrpa 5y ago
    An extreme contrast between poor and rich is common in third world countries. In many poor nations, you can find high end places for the ultra-wealthy not too far from slums. What I'm saying is that you're not seeing "third world intertwined with pricey restaurants", you're simply getting the full third world vibe in SF.

JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago

Shouldn't a suitcase's worth of products be valuable enough to do something? I could somewhat understand ignoring say, if a person stole a single item under $10. There's not enough resources to go after truly petty theft. I'd be surprised if a suitcase-sized quantity of things didn't reach the $950 threshold.

pedrosorio 5y ago
The threshold is $950: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
- JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
  Thanks, I have updated my comment with the figure.
  - thatguy0900 5y ago
    "I'd be surprised if a suitcase-sized quantity of things didn't reach the $950 threshold" how would that surprise you? A whole cart full of things is under 300.
    - Redoubts 5y ago
      of groceries, sure. Of liquor?
    - JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
      A 4-pack of razor cartridges is $20 at a convenience store. The markup means a relatively small volume of space can translate to rather significant dollar amounts. Lots of small, expensive products are sold inside these type of stores: makeup/beauty products, etc.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
diogenescynic 5y ago

hintymad 5y ago

I recall seeing an interview of random people in SF, and most of them say that this is simply redistribution of wealth for equity. Some politicians/pundits also publicly said last year that shoplifting or destroying properties are for social justice. So I guess SF progressives welcome shoplifting? Maybe there is a way to force Walgreen to reopen their stores for more wealth redistribution?

oceanghost 5y ago

In so cal there's a rather terrible chain of grocery stores called Stater Brothers. Like (nearly?) all grocery stores they have two entrances-- one that drops you into alcohol section, the other in the dairy. Theft of alcohol has become such a problem that they've started remodeling stores to remove the entrance directly in front of the alcohol. Meaning, if you now wish to steal alcohol, you have to enter from the opposite side of the building and walk behind or in front of 10 cashiers. I've witnessed many alcohol thefts in my day. The staff isn't authorized to stop the people (nor should they frankly), and the official position of the police department in my area is they do not respond to calls for anything less than an assault.