6 ms·

As Texas Went Dark, the State Paid Natural-Gas Companies to Go Offline

76 points by hourislate 5y ago

alisonkisk 5y ago
> The Electric Reliability Council of Texas activated a program that pays large industrial power users to reduce their consumption during emergencies. But the grid operator, known as Ercot, didn’t know who was being paid to participate in this program and what type of facilities were getting shut off. Gas processors' input providers were on the list.
- ResearchAtPlay 5y ago
  Does the article mention what type of natural gas facilities were shut down? Large loads (compressors, pumps) usually consume a share of the gas they transport because gas is so much lower cost than electricity. I wasn't aware that any facilities have a large enough electrical load to become part of the voluntary load shedding program.
  - curryst 5y ago
    I found this other article: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Operator-Unwittingly-Shut-Down-Natural-Gas-During-Texas-Freeze.html https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Oper... They keep referring to the list in "firms" instead of facilities or something like that. It sounds like they qualify at a corporate level instead of a firm, so if they're vertically integrated then it could impact all the facilities. The dollar amount they spent also seems high enough that it may have been more profitable to shut down than actually operate.
dreamcompiler 5y ago
This looks like a major screwup, rather than some kind of corruption as I interpreted the headline. The electrical generators couldn't meet the load, so they shed load by paying customers to go offline. This is standard grid management 101. Unfortunately some of that load was the machines that pumped gas to the generators. Oops. Classic positive feedback loop. My question is Why in the hell wasn't it somebody's job to ensure that fuel suppliers weren't on the load shedding list?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Lack of regulatory will.
  - refurb 5y ago
    "But you are the regulator. I mean, you created these regulations that failed."
    - candu 5y ago
      It's a fair remark, but like any large organization, government isn't this single homogenous entity: it's a collection of groups with imperfect communication and sometimes conflicting / separate goals. (That doesn't make scenarios like this better, but it at least makes them understandable.)
      - washadjeffmad 5y ago
        If you've seen it happen once, you've seen it a million times. You start with earnest, driven people set out to solve a major problem long term, and then the vultures set in. They cripple the regulation so it's either worthless or exploitable in the name of compromise, and when they learn how to game it, they fight to lock it into place so they can continue to subvert it legally. This is how medical pricing in the US got to where it is, for instance.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- brundolf 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
  - cryptoz 5y ago
    I repeated "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" blindly for years without really thinking about it much. I thought it was clever. But now I've come to realize I don't agree with it at all and I actually think it does a lot of harm. Bad people will do bad things and just make you think they are stupid instead of actively perpetrating evil acts. I think there is a lot of real harm done in this world that is done on purpose, i.e., actions that are meant to hurt people, and serve no other purpose - and these actions are dismissed by the 'enlightened' as mere stupidity, not worthy of serious discussion. Meanwhile, evildoers entrench and continue doing evil, under the guise of stupidity. I have personally dismissed many things as merely 'stupid' when it has later turned out to be an actual evil plot with the intent to harm. This has happened a lot recently, actually. I no longer support Hanlon's razor as anything useful and now often regard it as a red flag. I don't have a comment on this current article as it pertains to hanlon's razor, however. I'll sit this one out.
unanswered 5y ago
It's clear that we need more regulation to prevent this from happening again.
- krapp 5y ago
  It's Texas. We'll successfully blame regulation for the problem, deregulate even harder for good measure, and burn down the windmills so this never happens again.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  It is the regulators that made this happen...
- bdcravens 5y ago
  In Texas, the problem is the lack of decentralization, not deregulation.
- jackson1442 5y ago
  Indeed. Failing to follow federal advisories on winterizing your equipment[0] should be a criminal offense (negligence, perhaps?). Especially when it results in deaths like this. ERCOT, unfortunately, was created specifically to avoid regulation so we're not going to see it happen. [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/ercot-failed-to-weatherize-facilities-against-cold-weather-says-federal-report-from-2011/ar-BB1dKbdI https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/ercot-failed-to...
  - JamesBarney 5y ago
    ERCOT was created to avoid some regulation, but winterization is not one of the regulations it avoids.
- refurb 5y ago
  Indeed. Texas only needs to look to California to see how effective regulation can be.
robkop 5y ago
For a really good overview of what happened in Texas I'd highly recommend practical engineering's video. He provides a technical overview of the entire situation that really helps explain why what happened, happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mwXICY4JM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mwXICY4JM
- yboris 5y ago
  I love this man's whole channel! Such excellent videos - highly recommend.
fidesomnes 5y ago
Every single person involved in this screwup should lose their job but they won't.

76 points by hourislate 5y ago

> The Electric Reliability Council of Texas activated a program that pays large industrial power users to reduce their consumption during emergencies. But the grid operator, known as Ercot, didn’t know who was being paid to participate in this program and what type of facilities were getting shut off. Gas processors' input providers were on the list.

ResearchAtPlay 5y ago
Does the article mention what type of natural gas facilities were shut down? Large loads (compressors, pumps) usually consume a share of the gas they transport because gas is so much lower cost than electricity. I wasn't aware that any facilities have a large enough electrical load to become part of the voluntary load shedding program.
- curryst 5y ago
  I found this other article: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Operator-Unwittingly-Shut-Down-Natural-Gas-During-Texas-Freeze.html https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Oper... They keep referring to the list in "firms" instead of facilities or something like that. It sounds like they qualify at a corporate level instead of a firm, so if they're vertically integrated then it could impact all the facilities. The dollar amount they spent also seems high enough that it may have been more profitable to shut down than actually operate.

dreamcompiler 5y ago

This looks like a major screwup, rather than some kind of corruption as I interpreted the headline. The electrical generators couldn't meet the load, so they shed load by paying customers to go offline. This is standard grid management 101. Unfortunately some of that load was the machines that pumped gas to the generators. Oops. Classic positive feedback loop. My question is Why in the hell wasn't it somebody's job to ensure that fuel suppliers weren't on the load shedding list?

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Lack of regulatory will.
- refurb 5y ago
  "But you are the regulator. I mean, you created these regulations that failed."
  - candu 5y ago
    It's a fair remark, but like any large organization, government isn't this single homogenous entity: it's a collection of groups with imperfect communication and sometimes conflicting / separate goals. (That doesn't make scenarios like this better, but it at least makes them understandable.)
    - washadjeffmad 5y ago
      If you've seen it happen once, you've seen it a million times. You start with earnest, driven people set out to solve a major problem long term, and then the vultures set in. They cripple the regulation so it's either worthless or exploitable in the name of compromise, and when they learn how to game it, they fight to lock it into place so they can continue to subvert it legally. This is how medical pricing in the US got to where it is, for instance.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
brundolf 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
- cryptoz 5y ago
  I repeated "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" blindly for years without really thinking about it much. I thought it was clever. But now I've come to realize I don't agree with it at all and I actually think it does a lot of harm. Bad people will do bad things and just make you think they are stupid instead of actively perpetrating evil acts. I think there is a lot of real harm done in this world that is done on purpose, i.e., actions that are meant to hurt people, and serve no other purpose - and these actions are dismissed by the 'enlightened' as mere stupidity, not worthy of serious discussion. Meanwhile, evildoers entrench and continue doing evil, under the guise of stupidity. I have personally dismissed many things as merely 'stupid' when it has later turned out to be an actual evil plot with the intent to harm. This has happened a lot recently, actually. I no longer support Hanlon's razor as anything useful and now often regard it as a red flag. I don't have a comment on this current article as it pertains to hanlon's razor, however. I'll sit this one out.

unanswered 5y ago

It's clear that we need more regulation to prevent this from happening again.

krapp 5y ago
It's Texas. We'll successfully blame regulation for the problem, deregulate even harder for good measure, and burn down the windmills so this never happens again.
renewiltord 5y ago
It is the regulators that made this happen...
bdcravens 5y ago
In Texas, the problem is the lack of decentralization, not deregulation.
jackson1442 5y ago
Indeed. Failing to follow federal advisories on winterizing your equipment[0] should be a criminal offense (negligence, perhaps?). Especially when it results in deaths like this. ERCOT, unfortunately, was created specifically to avoid regulation so we're not going to see it happen. [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/ercot-failed-to-weatherize-facilities-against-cold-weather-says-federal-report-from-2011/ar-BB1dKbdI https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/ercot-failed-to...
- JamesBarney 5y ago
  ERCOT was created to avoid some regulation, but winterization is not one of the regulations it avoids.
refurb 5y ago
Indeed. Texas only needs to look to California to see how effective regulation can be.

robkop 5y ago

For a really good overview of what happened in Texas I'd highly recommend practical engineering's video. He provides a technical overview of the entire situation that really helps explain why what happened, happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mwXICY4JM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mwXICY4JM

yboris 5y ago
I love this man's whole channel! Such excellent videos - highly recommend.

fidesomnes 5y ago

Every single person involved in this screwup should lose their job but they won't.