14 ms·

If this leads to a mass exodus from Freenode, it'll probably significantly reduce overall IRC usage. Communities will fracture, people will set up random splin

by tazjin 5y ago

If this leads to a mass exodus from Freenode, it'll probably significantly reduce overall IRC usage. Communities will fracture, people will set up random splinter networks that will die off in a few months, and lots of open-source projects that already want to be using something Javascripty like Slack or Discord are going to use this as the motivating thing to make the switch. Personally I'm staying put on Freenode because I don't see a lot of user-facing impact potential here, and IRC was already essentially untrusted/public (yes, even your private messages - you don't really know who is relaying them and how trustworthy they are).

IshKebab 5y ago
IRC is already dying anyway. This will just speed up the process.
orblivion 5y ago
How many would move to Matrix?
- newvectorllc 5y ago
  Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and the biggest servers, and they operate the main identity server so they can keep track of your phone number or email address and map it to your Matrix ID. (I wonder when they'll start selling that data?) If this situation with Freenode makes you move to Matrix you're choosing to move to a network with all the same problems you're fleeing, but magnified Oh but there's one more thing about Matrix If you don't like it, the CEO of the company will come argue with you about it here I don't check for replies to my comments on HN because this community is too toxic but I'll bet Arathorn eventually comments to tell me I'm wrong. Maybe he'll promise that they don't sell the vector.im identity data. I don't trust him, anyway.
  - throwaways885 5y ago
    You're right. Matrix is no IRC. But it's an order of magnitude better than Facebook Messenger.
    - m-p-3 5y ago
      And it has encryption built-in, so even the server operator can't read messages.
  - _pferreir_ 5y ago
    > Fewer clients It does work decently on my phone though. > the identity server is centralized Is that really a downside? I don't know a single newcomer who found authenticating with "Nickserv" was a natural thing to do.
    - delfinom 5y ago
      At the same time, people used IRC because you could remain anonymous (with IP leakage being the only real issue). Matrix seems like a FBI honeypot asking you for email and phone number.
      - joepie91_ 5y ago
        As stated above, these are completely optional and only used for contact discovery (and password resets in the case of e-mail). Edit: Though I believe that matrix.org requires an e-mail address nowadays. But most homeservers don't.
        stryan 5y ago
        matrix.org does not, though it does have a prompt for e-mail on registration page. There's a line of text under it explaining that this is for optional opt-in contact discovery and password resets.
        5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- atatatat 5y ago
  This could be the event that sees an alternative to Synapse (Matrix server) pushed over the finish line by new contributors.
- terrabitlock 5y ago
  The matrix is evil. Matrix is not currently usable for full federated use https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix The matrix protocol is not scalable, so it becomes hell for large non-profit servers and in the future the Matrix network may split into several incompatible protocols
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    Also non-human-readable data formats...
gwillen 5y ago
I think libera.chat has successfully positioned itself as the clear successor to freenode; all the projects I'm a part of on freenode have moved / are moving there. I'm sure it's not perfect, and it's been having some teething issues with load and such (as expected). But it seems like ~100% of freenode's volunteer staff have moved over to libera.chat, so my impression is that the writing is on the wall for freenode. (The server links were never especially stable when they _had_ staff; now that they have no staff, I expect stability to suffer heavily.)
- Lammy 5y ago
  Perhaps now that there's a void to fill Freenode can hire some staff who can keep a few chat servers running stably v(._. )v

by tazjin 5y ago

IshKebab 5y ago

IRC is already dying anyway. This will just speed up the process.

orblivion 5y ago

How many would move to Matrix?

newvectorllc 5y ago
Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and the biggest servers, and they operate the main identity server so they can keep track of your phone number or email address and map it to your Matrix ID. (I wonder when they'll start selling that data?) If this situation with Freenode makes you move to Matrix you're choosing to move to a network with all the same problems you're fleeing, but magnified Oh but there's one more thing about Matrix If you don't like it, the CEO of the company will come argue with you about it here I don't check for replies to my comments on HN because this community is too toxic but I'll bet Arathorn eventually comments to tell me I'm wrong. Maybe he'll promise that they don't sell the vector.im identity data. I don't trust him, anyway.
- throwaways885 5y ago
  You're right. Matrix is no IRC. But it's an order of magnitude better than Facebook Messenger.
  - m-p-3 5y ago
    And it has encryption built-in, so even the server operator can't read messages.
- _pferreir_ 5y ago
  > Fewer clients It does work decently on my phone though. > the identity server is centralized Is that really a downside? I don't know a single newcomer who found authenticating with "Nickserv" was a natural thing to do.
  - delfinom 5y ago
    At the same time, people used IRC because you could remain anonymous (with IP leakage being the only real issue). Matrix seems like a FBI honeypot asking you for email and phone number.
    - joepie91_ 5y ago
      As stated above, these are completely optional and only used for contact discovery (and password resets in the case of e-mail). Edit: Though I believe that matrix.org requires an e-mail address nowadays. But most homeservers don't.
      - stryan 5y ago
        matrix.org does not, though it does have a prompt for e-mail on registration page. There's a line of text under it explaining that this is for optional opt-in contact discovery and password resets.
        5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
atatatat 5y ago
This could be the event that sees an alternative to Synapse (Matrix server) pushed over the finish line by new contributors.
terrabitlock 5y ago
The matrix is evil. Matrix is not currently usable for full federated use https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix The matrix protocol is not scalable, so it becomes hell for large non-profit servers and in the future the Matrix network may split into several incompatible protocols
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Also non-human-readable data formats...

gwillen 5y ago

I think libera.chat has successfully positioned itself as the clear successor to freenode; all the projects I'm a part of on freenode have moved / are moving there. I'm sure it's not perfect, and it's been having some teething issues with load and such (as expected). But it seems like ~100% of freenode's volunteer staff have moved over to libera.chat, so my impression is that the writing is on the wall for freenode. (The server links were never especially stable when they _had_ staff; now that they have no staff, I expect stability to suffer heavily.)

Lammy 5y ago
Perhaps now that there's a void to fill Freenode can hire some staff who can keep a few chat servers running stably v(._. )v