5 ms·

This is what you get when things like mask wearing start to become more of a social display than a rational decision. Most of the actual evidence shows outdoor

• iaHN 5y ago
  I had people on here saying some pretty nasty things to me for suggesting that while social distancing is good, having a mask on when outside and more than 6 ft apart is unnecessary. I wonder if they realize how they're proving all the "virtue signaling" critics right.
  • gsk22 5y ago
    I don't think virtue signalling explains the phenomenon fully. There seems to be another large group: people who are just over-cautious and not willing to take any amount of risk. I have several friends/family members who struggle with anxiety and COVID has been overwhelming for them. One of them (fully vaccinated) said they know the chance of infection after vaccination is less than 0.1%, but it's not a risk they're willing to take. I know their viewpoint isn't rational, but I empathize with it much more than the virtue signalers.
    • zpeti 5y ago
      I agree, but as an indirect consequence it’s allowed highly paranoid people to be able to blame and outrage vent at others. Which isn’t exactly healthy.
    • nerdponx 5y ago
      It's also just a damn mask. Not like they are waking you up at night or kicking you in the shin.
    • viraptor 5y ago
      Or they just look at the risk-to-effort ratio. We're talking about wearing a mask here not some tough commitment. I'd wear a mask for 0.1%. I also look both ways before crossing a one way street. I'm not going to force someone else to do it, but I'll take 0.1% for free.
      • zpeti 5y ago
        Maybe you don’t see the social and communication value of seeing someone’s face, I do. Maybe you don’t live somewhere where the temperature is 30 degree Celsius plus often, at which point wearing a mask is a very different UX to colder weather.
        • viraptor 5y ago
          My summer was 40C. It's ok if you find it uncomfortable. Not everyone does. From communication point of view, I do care and want to normalise wearing masks whenever you want. I'm totally using one when I need to go shopping and not feeling great.
      • miked85 5y ago
        This is also assuming masks actually prevent spread - data on that isn't clear.
      • zpeti 5y ago
        What percent has society gotten worse from the lost trust due to less communication information from masks? What percent have mental health issues increased due to less oxytocin from less hugs? What percent has society gotten worse from people being suspicious of others that perhaps they are infected? That 0.1% you speak of might have much bigger indirect costs, that you aren’t considering, but others might.
      • mensetmanusman 5y ago
        Masks are not created equally. proper N95s are an order of magnitude more effective than cloth at protecting yourself. Putting on a cloth mask outdoors is like wearing a helmet while driving on the highway.
    • la6471 5y ago
      If you see it up close and personal the devastation that COVID can bring , you would probably also be over-cautions too.
  • pydry 5y ago
    It's not virtue signaling, just poor risk assessment.
    • _euac 5y ago
      Why 'poor'? Have you factored in everything going on that person's life? Do you know if they have a friend or relative who might be at higher risk? What if they have a young kid and they don't want to risk it? What if they just consider wearing a mask a mild inconvenience when compared to - say - the risk of being intubated? I honestly can't understand this whole obsession with shaming people for wearing masks. Who gives two shits if someone else is wearing a mask? How does it affect you?
      • pydry 5y ago
        Why would I mind if people wore masks outside? They don't bother anyone.
        • _euac 5y ago
          Then you shouldn't use qualifiers such as 'poor' to describe their risk assessment. Don't give the idiots pushing anti-masking rhetoric in this forum more wind than they deserve by propagating their memes.
          • pydry 5y ago
            Nah, trust me, by treating it as a religious war you are a far bigger problem. Their identities as anti maskers are built in large part in opposition to people like you. It's a little like how Republicans have a tendency to define themselves as in opposition to Democrats.
      • chrismcb 5y ago
        It makes it harder for me to communicate. If you want to wear a mask, that is fine, it is your perogative. But people should be aware of the risks, and I don't think most people do. Many people wear masks because they were told too, despite the fact that the people who said that know that masks aren't necessarily effective.
• rightbyte 5y ago
  Has there been an empirical study since the danish one? https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817
  • TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    Plenty, although it's very hard to do a fully randomised trial of mask wearing on its own when everyone is also social distancing and hand washing. I know of no studies which suggest that mask wearing is a health risk, and plenty that suggest it's a health benefit.
• 1_player 5y ago
  Opinions about masks are like assholes. Everybody has one. How do I know? Because they _will_ tell you what they think about it, whoever it is. There is no safe space on any social media that when the pandemic is mentioned in any way, the discussion devolves into whether masks help or not. I've heard so much mask discussion since the beginning of the pandemic it's much easier for me to tell someone to wear one and just, pardon the French, STFU about it.
  • alibarber 5y ago
    And then it becomes easier for someone to ignore you, and not wear a mask when it might help. Like it or not there will always be shades of grey and discussion and nuance. Trying to ignore that is how you get extremism and identity politics. If you're tired of talking about something - don't talk about it. But oversimplifying and becoming absolutist is dangerous.
    • 1_player 5y ago
      Mind, I'm not trying to silence discussions around masks. I personally don't want to hear it every single time there's a chance for someone to just throw a "fucking masks, am I right?" in a discussion and it devolving into a mass of useless, uninformed and generally uninteresting opinions, and that's when actual extremism and identity politics start to show itself (us vs them, woke vs the sheeple, freedom vs muzzled), thankfully not on this forum. OP mentioned masks and homeless. This sub-thread has 5 comments about homelessness in San Francisco, and 69 comments about masks, and it's far more interesting trying to understand the homelessness situation in SF, which is absolutely bonkers IMO, than the same old hot air talk. First we had the COVID experts and/or denialists, now we have the mask sceptics. I really can do without that.
      • alibarber 5y ago
        I hear ya - it is indeed tiresome. Just as a general thing though, the conversations we have need to move away from 'telling [them] to just do [x]'. In Britain, a lot of my friends got upset about Brexit and Election Results and said things like 'we told them not to vote for..., then we told them again to vote for...' - people do not like being told what to do. You gotta win hearts and minds. Sure, a lot of the more vocal ones are a lost cause best left to their own demise - but it's still worth it for most.
• ben0x539 5y ago
  How do you tell from the outside it's not for rational reasons? I don't see how wearing a mask is irrational just because it may not be critically necessary. It doesn't measurably inconvenience me to keep my mask on, and I don't have to think about when I do need to put it on, so even a marginal safety benefit may be worth it.
  • zpeti 5y ago
    > How do you tell from the outside it's not for rational reasons? Look at the data. However, I agree with you, whoever wants to wear a mask can. Just don’t expect others to wear one too. Your own paranoia does not mean you get to tell others what to do.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • AstralStorm 5y ago
      The alleged paranoia is not one unless herd immunity is verified, and effective against upcoming variants from abroad. Precautionary principle gives it a few months of wait time after that research, to ensure it's valid and repeated.
      • prepend 5y ago
        That would make sense if masks protected me, but that’s not how they work. Masks are not protective of the wearer, they protect the wearer from spreading to others. The research is months old on this. It seems pretty valid to me, and to public health agencies issuing guidance. Also from basic logical principles, if vaccinated then masks don’t do much of anything. I don’t think you owe anyone your rationale for why you wear a mask, but it’s irrational to expect others to wear masks when they are past the point of usefulness. Or to hold negative opinions of people who don’t wear masks. If anything, wearing masks using faulty logic is something that should be avoided. As trying to avoid all illogical things.
        • 5y ago
• DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  > This is what you get when things like mask wearing start to become more of a social display than a rational decision. I'm OK with society changing and optimizing itself so we always wear masks in public spaces, but especially in public transportation, in doctors waiting rooms, on planes, in the same way they do it in Japan. Reasons people wear mask even after vaccination is that they can still spread the virus to others. So it would seem less selfish taking care of others. Ideally people do this out of consideration for their peers not because it gets enforced by law. But as I understand this is a hard pill to swallow for Americans and they immediately have to create a divisive situation where it's no longer about being considerate but about "virtue signalling". People are generally filthy and especially those not wearing masks and going all Karen in 2021 are very likely not vaccinated. The way to tell if somebody has not been vaccinated is to just ask them who won the election.
  • zpeti 5y ago
    Studies from Israel so far have shown vaccinated people almost never infect others. So wearing a mask vaccinated is not about protecting others, at least not according to our current scientific studies
    • bildung 5y ago
      Studies from the UK have shown that people with one shot, after 3 weeks, still infect others, though the rate is 49% lower.
      • AstralStorm 5y ago
        One shot is therefore not sufficient for herd immunity, apparently, as expected. We need also data for all the various vaccines, and for people who recovered from the infection.
• rvieira 5y ago
  I don't know if it's a social display. Some people might simply feel safer by using, even if it's not necessary (yes, perhaps not "rational" but not just as a statement).
• sampo 5y ago
  Some people get so comfortable with a mask, that it's more trouble temporarily removing it, than to just keep wearing it for the whole trip, even when outdoors or in their car. A respirator mask also filters out pollen, and particulate pollution and fine dust from traffic. Some people used these even before pandemic, when outside in polluted areas. And if you really hate the feeling of insects flying in your mouth when bicycling, a mask prevents that, too.
  • foxyv 5y ago
    I have had some of the best breathing of my life lately. Being able to wear a mask in public without the police going after you or people looking at you funny is such a wonderful thing. Cedar fever is a real pain.
• InsomniacL 5y ago
  alternatively... People just find it easier to leave it on. If I take it off I have to store it in a dirty pocket or carry it. I'm not frustrated or outraged trying to control others, it's just more convenient.
• watwut 5y ago
  > It’s also a way for frustrated people who want to control others and be outraged to be able to vent their frustration at other people, in a socially acceptable way. You could say the same about people who get offended over others wearing masks in situations where it dont affect them at all. Like, someone wearing it in car or when exercising alone outside. It does not affect you in any way. Those people dont jump out of their cars to complain about what you wear. They are silently driving somewhere, ignoring you. I cant really think of situation where other people wearing masks affect me.
• deleted 5y ago
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• enominezerum 5y ago
  Agreed. It is socially cool in areas to either wear or not wear a mask and society is too prone to judging someone for having it on/of. Case in point is being in a Lowe's garden center, outdoors, 24 feet away from a guy. He still decides to yell at me to put my mask on even though he was the closest person to me and it was only him and me outside. I don't mind wearing it either, it is a fashion accessory as my wife makes custom ones and we have a vinyl cutter to express our nerdy side. But, I won't be wearing one just for the sake of social posturing.