4 ms·

I interviewed at a small company just for an internship several years back. It was an iOS position, but again, internship/jr. level. I said I wasn't an expert b

I interviewed at a small company just for an internship several years back. It was an iOS position, but again, internship/jr. level. I said I wasn't an expert but wanted to learn and had spent some time developing some basic iOS apps on my own. Guy proceeds to seriously ask me about low-level memory management, i.e. ARC (Automatic Reference Counting) vs. other methods (this was roughly 2013 or so). I attempted to give an answer from what I knew just reading the docs, as I hadn't written complex-enough code for it to matter. Mentioned I didn't have first-hand experience using it, so that's my frame of reference. He basically laughed and went off to tell the recruiter it wasn't worth having me finish my interview loop. I understand for an experienced iOS engineer at the time, those would've been entirely valid questions and it'd be reasonable to expect enough time spent using them that a quality answer could be given. But I was honest in saying I hadn't gone that far and this was for an internship. Of course that was also when I realized that in the real world, there are small companies who tend to want FTE-level of productivity out of young engineers/interns for that pay level who aren't experienced enough to know it. Edit: Coincidentally that same day I reached out over Twitter to the CEO of a company I admired, also in SF, and asked if I could just tour the office since I was in the area. That CEO spent his lunch hour with me, had a good laugh about the interview story, and worked with one of his teams and recruiters to get me in the schedule to interview. Got an internship there the right way, spent two years interning, went full time for 3.5 years, and that was the beginning of my full-time career.

devin 5y ago
I have a feeling this will get me a downvote, but I grew up in a very blue collar town and the idea of paying one's dues is not crazy to me. I see a lot of people entering the tech market as if they don't have anything to prove, like their degree says it all. In any industry, you shovel some shit early on, IMO. I was a good programmer, but I got my start racking servers in a data center. I crawled under raised floor to run cable, replaced batteries, worried about cooling, and generally did a lot of work no one else wanted to do. I was a programmer already, and I think it was a waste of my ambition for $COMPANY to not give me a job writing software, but I don't mind the idea of people paying their dues, and I think I'm better for my experience. Careers aren't supposed to start with you having a big corner office. It is surprising to me how many people feel entitled enough that they truly believe they ought to start at the top.
- MangoCoffee 5y ago
  >I don't mind the idea of people paying their dues, and I think I'm better for my experience. Careers aren't supposed to start with you having a big corner office. It is surprising to me how many people feel entitled enough that they truly believe they ought to start at the top. he is trying to pay his dues. its an intern position. at the very low level.
  - xlii 5y ago
    As usual - it depends. FAANG internship is way more valuable than other big names and big names are much more valuable than anonymous web shop hiring 3 people. So if they went directly for big name that isn’t exactly paying their dues.
    - namdnay 5y ago
      It’s not like you’re supposed to work your way up the internship ladder.
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      FAANGs have massive intern support programs and their interviews aren’t usually like this. Interns are the ultimate try before you buy so for orgs with the ability they’re worth it.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  Does this have anything to with what the parent comment even described? Expecting someone to apply for an internship with extensive iOS skills is a bit of a joke. It kind of reminds me when I got asked for an internship experience if I had any experience doing large Python 2 to 3 migrations. The job description didn't even use the word Python. (I later found out through Glassdoor that this company paid interns about the same rate as the entry rate for the H&M down the block.)
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  That's not paying your dues. Being a software engineer forced to work as a network technician (not even a network engineer) is akin to having the junior accountant just get everyone coffee. Maybe writing tests is paying your dues, because it often feels like a thankless job. Building UIs in a JS framework... Those could be "paying your dues", or more precise getting real world development experience. But there's a lower limit to that "paying your dues", when it comes to educated professions.
twic 5y ago
> Guy proceeds to seriously ask me about low-level memory management Some internship candidates would have been able to answer those questions. I interview a dozen or so internship candidates every year, and i see a lot of variation in what they know. They're all good students from good universities, so they've got a grounding in theoretical computer science, and they've all done some coursework projects and one or two group projects. But some have done a lot more than that. One was into competitive programming. One had built a business around automated eBay sniping. One had built a few iOS apps that were making money. My approach is to hire anyone who has any practical experience (a group project is fine) and doesn't try to bullshit me. But i could imagine some people focusing more closely on the handful of people with deeper experience. It depends on what you want your internship programme to do.

devin 5y ago

I have a feeling this will get me a downvote, but I grew up in a very blue collar town and the idea of paying one's dues is not crazy to me. I see a lot of people entering the tech market as if they don't have anything to prove, like their degree says it all. In any industry, you shovel some shit early on, IMO. I was a good programmer, but I got my start racking servers in a data center. I crawled under raised floor to run cable, replaced batteries, worried about cooling, and generally did a lot of work no one else wanted to do. I was a programmer already, and I think it was a waste of my ambition for $COMPANY to not give me a job writing software, but I don't mind the idea of people paying their dues, and I think I'm better for my experience. Careers aren't supposed to start with you having a big corner office. It is surprising to me how many people feel entitled enough that they truly believe they ought to start at the top.

MangoCoffee 5y ago
>I don't mind the idea of people paying their dues, and I think I'm better for my experience. Careers aren't supposed to start with you having a big corner office. It is surprising to me how many people feel entitled enough that they truly believe they ought to start at the top. he is trying to pay his dues. its an intern position. at the very low level.
- xlii 5y ago
  As usual - it depends. FAANG internship is way more valuable than other big names and big names are much more valuable than anonymous web shop hiring 3 people. So if they went directly for big name that isn’t exactly paying their dues.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    It’s not like you’re supposed to work your way up the internship ladder.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    FAANGs have massive intern support programs and their interviews aren’t usually like this. Interns are the ultimate try before you buy so for orgs with the ability they’re worth it.
bobthepanda 5y ago
Does this have anything to with what the parent comment even described? Expecting someone to apply for an internship with extensive iOS skills is a bit of a joke. It kind of reminds me when I got asked for an internship experience if I had any experience doing large Python 2 to 3 migrations. The job description didn't even use the word Python. (I later found out through Glassdoor that this company paid interns about the same rate as the entry rate for the H&M down the block.)
JAlexoid 5y ago
That's not paying your dues. Being a software engineer forced to work as a network technician (not even a network engineer) is akin to having the junior accountant just get everyone coffee. Maybe writing tests is paying your dues, because it often feels like a thankless job. Building UIs in a JS framework... Those could be "paying your dues", or more precise getting real world development experience. But there's a lower limit to that "paying your dues", when it comes to educated professions.

twic 5y ago

> Guy proceeds to seriously ask me about low-level memory management Some internship candidates would have been able to answer those questions. I interview a dozen or so internship candidates every year, and i see a lot of variation in what they know. They're all good students from good universities, so they've got a grounding in theoretical computer science, and they've all done some coursework projects and one or two group projects. But some have done a lot more than that. One was into competitive programming. One had built a business around automated eBay sniping. One had built a few iOS apps that were making money. My approach is to hire anyone who has any practical experience (a group project is fine) and doesn't try to bullshit me. But i could imagine some people focusing more closely on the handful of people with deeper experience. It depends on what you want your internship programme to do.