25 ms·

It's been a shift I've noticed over the last ~15(?) years of browsing these and similar forums - as they become more well-known and frequented by the general pu

It's been a shift I've noticed over the last ~15(?) years of browsing these and similar forums - as they become more well-known and frequented by the general public, the opinions start to lose nuance and aren't as tightly coupled to the principles from which the forum was borne. Similar example - government regulation of tech: if, 15 years ago, you were to tell a community of Hackers that the EU was planning a massive law to regulate the way you can process data that internet browsers voluntarily send to your server, there would be principled outrage. But, speak ill of GDPR on today's HN, and you'll quickly find yourself inundated with anti-tech talking points. The filter bubble doesn't last forever :)

Daishiman 5y ago
Not really. Principles are borne of small communities because small communities can afford to be principles. Before software ate the world, the impact that damaging actors had was much more limited. A few computers would get a few viruses here and there but that was it. We live a world where computers have been integrated into the fabric of society, and where system risks do not have easy, principled answers. And if principles don't adapt and negotiate with reality, its defenders will just be isolated from the rest of society which can't afford to lose a lot of other things, which include other, possibly more important, principles. What changed with regards to GDPR was that 15 years ago there weren't Facebooks, Amazons, and other megacorps that had the personal data of 30% of the world's population available for their use. Tech monopolies encroached different product areas. What changed in 15 years is that we grew up, we acquired power, we became more integrated into society and as such the risk profiles change. You either do, or you become irrelevant like many of the Free Software activists who were a vanguard back then and whose opinion nowadays matters little.
pjc50 5y ago
Or perhaps those of us who've been here since Fidonet are weary of nuance-free libertarianism. Shrug
selfhoster11 5y ago
> Similar example - government regulation of tech: if, 15 years ago, you were to tell a community of Hackers that the EU was planning a massive law to regulate the way you can process data that internet browsers voluntarily send to your server, there would be principled outrage. But, speak ill of GDPR on today's HN, and you'll quickly find yourself inundated with anti-tech talking points. GDPR is an actual improvement. Silicon Valley overstepped their boundaries and got punished accordingly. Perhaps insufficiently punished, even.

Daishiman 5y ago

Not really. Principles are borne of small communities because small communities can afford to be principles. Before software ate the world, the impact that damaging actors had was much more limited. A few computers would get a few viruses here and there but that was it. We live a world where computers have been integrated into the fabric of society, and where system risks do not have easy, principled answers. And if principles don't adapt and negotiate with reality, its defenders will just be isolated from the rest of society which can't afford to lose a lot of other things, which include other, possibly more important, principles. What changed with regards to GDPR was that 15 years ago there weren't Facebooks, Amazons, and other megacorps that had the personal data of 30% of the world's population available for their use. Tech monopolies encroached different product areas. What changed in 15 years is that we grew up, we acquired power, we became more integrated into society and as such the risk profiles change. You either do, or you become irrelevant like many of the Free Software activists who were a vanguard back then and whose opinion nowadays matters little.

pjc50 5y ago

Or perhaps those of us who've been here since Fidonet are weary of nuance-free libertarianism. Shrug

selfhoster11 5y ago

> Similar example - government regulation of tech: if, 15 years ago, you were to tell a community of Hackers that the EU was planning a massive law to regulate the way you can process data that internet browsers voluntarily send to your server, there would be principled outrage. But, speak ill of GDPR on today's HN, and you'll quickly find yourself inundated with anti-tech talking points. GDPR is an actual improvement. Silicon Valley overstepped their boundaries and got punished accordingly. Perhaps insufficiently punished, even.