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"Will you be clever at the expense of others, or will you be kind?" -Jeff Bezos https://www.princeton.edu/news/2010/05/30/2010-baccalaureate-remarks https://ww

"Will you be clever at the expense of others, or will you be kind?" -Jeff Bezos https://www.princeton.edu/news/2010/05/30/2010-baccalaureate-remarks https://www.princeton.edu/news/2010/05/30/2010-baccalaureate... "Fierce nerds" can be valuable. Sure. But the folks who truly stand out in my mind are a level higher. They're the ones at the top of their game, who know how to demand & command excellence, without being jerks about it. I'm reminded of this episode of "The Chef Show" where Jon Favreau compliments Roy Choi behind his back. He tells Bill Burr that he had followed Roy around for a full day, going to all his restaurants and food trucks, and not once did Roy raise his voice to his staff. It's pretty cool to see how much admiration one artist/leader has for the other, not because of their technical skills but because they choose to be kind. I don't think we need to settle for being "fierce nerds".

username90 5y ago
Once you have achieved significant status and money you no longer need to be fierce since people listen anyway. But most people worth listening to doesn't have significant status and money, instead we wait until they found their own companies and become rich before we listen to them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  This may be true for you, but not for me. I listen to many people who are not well known, and who are not rich, and who arae not startup founders. For instance, none of my friends are rich startup founders, neither is my partner, nor my therapist, nor my coworkers, yet I consider all their opinions valuable (more so than the rich "fierce nerds"). Most of the podcasts I listen to are not run by the rich and powerful, either.
  - username90 5y ago
    It is true for society in aggregate, which is why big companies often loses to small startups on their own strong points. That should be basically impossible if the big companies were anywhere close to rational, but as we know such things happens all the time.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I find this ironic coming out of Jeff Bezos. There are plenty of examples of people that are exactly opposite of what you describe as. Steve Jobs - massive jerk, but demanded and commanded excellence. I don't personally condone this type of personalities but they exist. Linus Torvalds is another example. There is much more to it.
yupper32 5y ago
> He tells Bill Burr that he had followed Roy around for a full day, going to all his restaurants and food trucks, and not once did Roy raise his voice to his staff. Sorry what are you trying to say here? It's admirable or difficult not to yell at your employees?
- klinskyc 5y ago
  Chefs/Kitchens are stereotypically full of yelling, and (otherwise) well-regarded chefs definitely live up to that - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/dining/restaurant-workers-ndas-david-chang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/dining/restaurant-workers...
  - yupper32 5y ago
    That still doesn't mean that not yelling should receive any sort of admiration. You don't get bonus points for doing what should be the bare minimum, regardless of what the current norms are.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      I don't see why not. Should the anti-slavery campaigners of the 1800s receive no admiration, despite social norms at the time, because vocal opposition to slavery "should be the bare minimum"? What about companies now that go out of their way to make sure none of the workers in their supply chain are exploited? That should be the bare minimum - should we ignore the effort that they've gone to? What about a family member who's been clean from drugs for 10 years? Should we celebrate with them, or just ignore their achievement because not being addicted to drugs is pretty much considered the bare minimum by broader society?
      - yupper32 5y ago
        Are you for real? Man, who would have thought "not yelling at your employees isn't an accomplishment" would be controversial... > Should the anti-slavery campaigners of the 1800s receive no admiration, despite social norms at the time, because vocal opposition to slavery "should be the bare minimum"? Not even close to the same. This case would be like admiring all the people that happened to not own slaves. Congrats? Anti-slavery campaigners were doing way more than the bare minimum. No one lost their lives over just not having slaves. > What about companies now that go out of their way to make sure none of the workers in their supply chain are exploited? That should be the bare minimum - should we ignore the effort that they've gone to? Not even close to the same. This case would be like admiring the factory manager for not exploiting their employees. Congrats? > What about a family member who's been clean from drugs for 10 years? Should we celebrate with them, or just ignore their achievement because not being addicted to drugs is pretty much considered the bare minimum by broader society? Maybe if yelling at employees was incredibly physically addictive. Literally my whole point is that you all are saying, "Wow, it's so admirable that you're not a piece of shit!".
lostlogin 5y ago
> "Will you be clever at the expense of others, or will you be kind?" -Jeff Bezos That an interesting read, thanks. I struggle to square what Bezos is saying with what Amazon has become. He is clearly incredibly clever but appears devoid of any kindness toward his low level employees. Am I missing something?
- ping_pong 5y ago
  Are you only believing what you read in the media or do you know people that actually work at Amazon? The fact that Amazon employees in a warehouse rejected unionization speaks volumes. And I know plenty of Amazon engineers that love working there. To put it in perspective, there may be employees that hate working at Amazon, but there are also 100,000 employees. If only 10% of the employees hated working there, that's still 10,000 employees. But a 90% satisfaction rate for any company is amazingly high.
  - jjtheblunt 5y ago
    1.3 million employees a recent news article said. wow.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    I know people who work at Amazon. Not even the people who like it say it's kind.
    - bdavisx 5y ago
      I've heard "cut-throat", but not kind.
    - crocodiletears 5y ago
      I've only once had an employer I would describe as kind. Even then, it was but for the generosity of an aberrant manager, and not a commercial institution. In most low-skill positions (especially the ones which favor physical labor over soft-skills), you are a body to be instrumentalized until you either leave leave or are disposed of. That's the reality of most work. Retention is as high as it needs to be to ensure continuous operations, and employee happiness is either incidental or primarily a slogan. The human element is made to be as irrelevant as the market will allow. The Amazon Warehouse workers I've known have described it as warehouse work. Little better or worse in their experience than working at any other distribution center, though some centers are naturally likely to be ran more poorly than others.
prtkgpt 5y ago
Interesting! I think compliments given in general to fierce nerds is a valid idea. General rule of not to be pissing off people in life.
zem 5y ago
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people. -- Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
xiaodai 5y ago
Will you be kind to your wife of 30 years or will you try to chase some journalist.

username90 5y ago

Once you have achieved significant status and money you no longer need to be fierce since people listen anyway. But most people worth listening to doesn't have significant status and money, instead we wait until they found their own companies and become rich before we listen to them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
philosopher1234 5y ago
This may be true for you, but not for me. I listen to many people who are not well known, and who are not rich, and who arae not startup founders. For instance, none of my friends are rich startup founders, neither is my partner, nor my therapist, nor my coworkers, yet I consider all their opinions valuable (more so than the rich "fierce nerds"). Most of the podcasts I listen to are not run by the rich and powerful, either.
- username90 5y ago
  It is true for society in aggregate, which is why big companies often loses to small startups on their own strong points. That should be basically impossible if the big companies were anywhere close to rational, but as we know such things happens all the time.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I find this ironic coming out of Jeff Bezos. There are plenty of examples of people that are exactly opposite of what you describe as. Steve Jobs - massive jerk, but demanded and commanded excellence. I don't personally condone this type of personalities but they exist. Linus Torvalds is another example. There is much more to it.

yupper32 5y ago

> He tells Bill Burr that he had followed Roy around for a full day, going to all his restaurants and food trucks, and not once did Roy raise his voice to his staff. Sorry what are you trying to say here? It's admirable or difficult not to yell at your employees?

klinskyc 5y ago
Chefs/Kitchens are stereotypically full of yelling, and (otherwise) well-regarded chefs definitely live up to that - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/dining/restaurant-workers-ndas-david-chang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/dining/restaurant-workers...
- yupper32 5y ago
  That still doesn't mean that not yelling should receive any sort of admiration. You don't get bonus points for doing what should be the bare minimum, regardless of what the current norms are.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    I don't see why not. Should the anti-slavery campaigners of the 1800s receive no admiration, despite social norms at the time, because vocal opposition to slavery "should be the bare minimum"? What about companies now that go out of their way to make sure none of the workers in their supply chain are exploited? That should be the bare minimum - should we ignore the effort that they've gone to? What about a family member who's been clean from drugs for 10 years? Should we celebrate with them, or just ignore their achievement because not being addicted to drugs is pretty much considered the bare minimum by broader society?
    - yupper32 5y ago
      Are you for real? Man, who would have thought "not yelling at your employees isn't an accomplishment" would be controversial... > Should the anti-slavery campaigners of the 1800s receive no admiration, despite social norms at the time, because vocal opposition to slavery "should be the bare minimum"? Not even close to the same. This case would be like admiring all the people that happened to not own slaves. Congrats? Anti-slavery campaigners were doing way more than the bare minimum. No one lost their lives over just not having slaves. > What about companies now that go out of their way to make sure none of the workers in their supply chain are exploited? That should be the bare minimum - should we ignore the effort that they've gone to? Not even close to the same. This case would be like admiring the factory manager for not exploiting their employees. Congrats? > What about a family member who's been clean from drugs for 10 years? Should we celebrate with them, or just ignore their achievement because not being addicted to drugs is pretty much considered the bare minimum by broader society? Maybe if yelling at employees was incredibly physically addictive. Literally my whole point is that you all are saying, "Wow, it's so admirable that you're not a piece of shit!".

lostlogin 5y ago

> "Will you be clever at the expense of others, or will you be kind?" -Jeff Bezos That an interesting read, thanks. I struggle to square what Bezos is saying with what Amazon has become. He is clearly incredibly clever but appears devoid of any kindness toward his low level employees. Am I missing something?

ping_pong 5y ago
Are you only believing what you read in the media or do you know people that actually work at Amazon? The fact that Amazon employees in a warehouse rejected unionization speaks volumes. And I know plenty of Amazon engineers that love working there. To put it in perspective, there may be employees that hate working at Amazon, but there are also 100,000 employees. If only 10% of the employees hated working there, that's still 10,000 employees. But a 90% satisfaction rate for any company is amazingly high.
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  1.3 million employees a recent news article said. wow.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  I know people who work at Amazon. Not even the people who like it say it's kind.
  - bdavisx 5y ago
    I've heard "cut-throat", but not kind.
  - crocodiletears 5y ago
    I've only once had an employer I would describe as kind. Even then, it was but for the generosity of an aberrant manager, and not a commercial institution. In most low-skill positions (especially the ones which favor physical labor over soft-skills), you are a body to be instrumentalized until you either leave leave or are disposed of. That's the reality of most work. Retention is as high as it needs to be to ensure continuous operations, and employee happiness is either incidental or primarily a slogan. The human element is made to be as irrelevant as the market will allow. The Amazon Warehouse workers I've known have described it as warehouse work. Little better or worse in their experience than working at any other distribution center, though some centers are naturally likely to be ran more poorly than others.

prtkgpt 5y ago

Interesting! I think compliments given in general to fierce nerds is a valid idea. General rule of not to be pissing off people in life.

zem 5y ago

When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people. -- Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

xiaodai 5y ago

Will you be kind to your wife of 30 years or will you try to chase some journalist.