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people with money can buy mining factories and make decisions anyway.

leishman 5y ago
See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking. Existing miners can't do this in a PoW system
- 8note 5y ago
  New people can still vote for their governments to affect those systems. The distinction feels irrelevant
  - leishman 5y ago
    It's very relevant. Mining is very easy to geographically diversify. PoS coins will almost all be controlled by US based custodians subject to US regulations. PoS coins will be controlled by the US financial industry at the end of the day
    - zionic 5y ago
      This is completely false, late/end game PoW centralizes mining around the cheapest electricity. It is impossible to mine profitably in the overwhelming majority of the world now.
    - 8note 5y ago
      Your government controls which coins you are able to use. It doesn't matter if the coin becomes run by another geographic area if it's illegal for you to trade in them
- zionic 5y ago
  >See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking There is little to no evidence of this. Completely unsupported conspiracy theory.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > Existing miners can't do this in a PoW system Sure they can. It's easy to only mine on top of blocks from certain sources, and if most of the network does this then those are the only blocks that matter.
  - leishman 5y ago
    You can mine anonymously, you can't stake anonymously.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      But my comment is about whitelisting, not blacklisting. The ability to be anonymous won't stop whitelisting.
      - leishman 5y ago
        Sure but the difference with mining is that having a majority of hashrate doesn't allow you to maintain that majority in perpetuity. You have constant operating expenses that require you to sell your Bitcoin, along with constantly growing competition. Just look at the rise and fall of large Bitcoin miners. With PoS if you are the biggest on day 1 you will probably be the biggest on day 1,000.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        It might mathematically keep you in charge forever, but if you can stop almost anyone from being able to profit then it's very unlikely people will invest enough to override you. And the motivation not to do it is the same, people will get mad and stop using the grossly manipulated coin.
witweb 5y ago
Please read up on UASF and Bitcoin. People can buy tons of mining factories, but if a very large amount of nodes start rejecting blocks and therefore the rewards, miners start to rethink their stance very fast. There is no discussion here, history proves it.
- SwagtimusPrime 5y ago
  and UASF are a thing in PoS as well, if some entity/entities acquire a majority of the staked coins users can simply fork the malicious actors out. It's functionally equivalent except that it's an order of magnitude more expensive to acquire the required coins as opposed to getting the equivalent in hashpower.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
    UASF is just "Proof of Subreddit Moderation".

See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking. Existing miners can't do this in a PoW system

8note 5y ago
New people can still vote for their governments to affect those systems. The distinction feels irrelevant
- leishman 5y ago
  It's very relevant. Mining is very easy to geographically diversify. PoS coins will almost all be controlled by US based custodians subject to US regulations. PoS coins will be controlled by the US financial industry at the end of the day
  - zionic 5y ago
    This is completely false, late/end game PoW centralizes mining around the cheapest electricity. It is impossible to mine profitably in the overwhelming majority of the world now.
  - 8note 5y ago
    Your government controls which coins you are able to use. It doesn't matter if the coin becomes run by another geographic area if it's illegal for you to trade in them
zionic 5y ago
>See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking There is little to no evidence of this. Completely unsupported conspiracy theory.
Dylan16807 5y ago
> Existing miners can't do this in a PoW system Sure they can. It's easy to only mine on top of blocks from certain sources, and if most of the network does this then those are the only blocks that matter.
- leishman 5y ago
  You can mine anonymously, you can't stake anonymously.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    But my comment is about whitelisting, not blacklisting. The ability to be anonymous won't stop whitelisting.
    - leishman 5y ago
      Sure but the difference with mining is that having a majority of hashrate doesn't allow you to maintain that majority in perpetuity. You have constant operating expenses that require you to sell your Bitcoin, along with constantly growing competition. Just look at the rise and fall of large Bitcoin miners. With PoS if you are the biggest on day 1 you will probably be the biggest on day 1,000.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        It might mathematically keep you in charge forever, but if you can stop almost anyone from being able to profit then it's very unlikely people will invest enough to override you. And the motivation not to do it is the same, people will get mad and stop using the grossly manipulated coin.

witweb 5y ago

Please read up on UASF and Bitcoin. People can buy tons of mining factories, but if a very large amount of nodes start rejecting blocks and therefore the rewards, miners start to rethink their stance very fast. There is no discussion here, history proves it.

SwagtimusPrime 5y ago
and UASF are a thing in PoS as well, if some entity/entities acquire a majority of the staked coins users can simply fork the malicious actors out. It's functionally equivalent except that it's an order of magnitude more expensive to acquire the required coins as opposed to getting the equivalent in hashpower.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
  UASF is just "Proof of Subreddit Moderation".