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Was on Crete just before Covid hit. People there told me it is more or less impossible to reconstruct most of the language because there just isn't enough base

Was on Crete just before Covid hit. People there told me it is more or less impossible to reconstruct most of the language because there just isn't enough base material for references. He explicitly told me not to believe people that claim they would be able to translate. Although he probably just meant tourist scams and this is on another level of course. Wouldn't recommend Knossos, a bit too oriented at tourists, but there are other ruins that are well worth the visit. I believe there is a picture of a women in the building in the picture, but it was very crudely restored. They just used the next IKEA picture frame they could find. But I wonder what archive they mean when they mention the sources. Cannot have been that much, because the area is rather small.

dalbasal 5y ago
Apologies for being argumentative, but I would recommend Knossos... if you're into archeology. Most mediterranean sites, however ancient their origins, are dominated by classical era artifacts and structures. It's rare to walk around a bronze or even iron age age site that retains the feel of an older era, excepting Egypt of course. I would recommend Petra for similar reasons. It's also much bigger and more impressive. Petra also still has a backwater feel, to contrast with your objection to Knossos.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Yeah, it is still worth a visit, I meant that only in comparison to the other Minoan sites on Crete. There are also some in Malia, but those were in a worse state than others. In Malia you could see another curious and living civilization that drives on motorized bicycles. I believe people called them the British. For the average tourist without too deep knowledge about archaeology (me), I found Phaistos more impressive, especially for that feeling that you mentioned. It isn't restored to that degree, but still impressive how much remains from this ancient civilization. Maybe it was just the vicinity of the city that made Knossos seem not that special in comparison. It isn't too far from Knossos, well worth a trip. I think it was just an hour by car from Knossos. I will certainly put Petra on the list to visit.
  - dalbasal 5y ago
    Total tangent, but iirc, the lonely planet recommends driving past Malia without stopping... because of the "sunburnt british teens on quads" problem you mention. I'll make an admission, and hopefully my HN anonymity holds... I stopped for baked beans, chips and a pint. I don't really know why I did it, and I'm sorry.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Heh, to be honest we stopped there too. Our first time English breakfast was in Greece. I thought it funny that so many restaurants in the city had it on the menu. Felt a bit bad for ignoring the local cuisine, but it was quite tasty.
      - dalbasal 5y ago
        Sugar, pork fat and white bread... It's cheating, but it works. Side note. Backwater (or back alley) tavernas in Crete are amazing. I could spend half my life in them. The "eat where locals eat" applies, but keep in mind that locals don't eat until late. Being empty at 7pm is actually a good sign. Any place that serves stuffed zucchini flowers or goat in yogurt is a good bet. Beware the raki. Just because it's free, doesn't mean you should finish the bottle.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    The Knossos site is remarkable, but like so much early archaeology, the reconstruction is more imaginative than factual, and somewhat destructive. There's a nice overview of the pros and cons at: https://smarthistory.org/conservation-knossos/ https://smarthistory.org/conservation-knossos/ That said, I do highly recommend it, as well as the museum in Herklion. (I didn't get to visit the Phaistos site; thanks for the recommendation.)
antman 5y ago
Knossos area ftom the ruins until the mountains what you saw is only what has been dug up. It would need thousands of years with the current yearly budget to dig up the area. For Mycenes which is not Minoan and a lot smaller the estimation was that they would need 200 years to excavate the whole city. Knossos is great, just get there early. Ignore the signs that explain the rooms. If you notice they say `According to Sleeman this was.... '. But nobody really knows. Late Minoans that stayed there and had lost the capability/technology to build that big, did not know the building' s function either. Indeed Linear A has too few samples but a code smell for new archeoligical decryptions is when they say it references 'Gods' and this doesn't. We will see though.

dalbasal 5y ago

Apologies for being argumentative, but I would recommend Knossos... if you're into archeology. Most mediterranean sites, however ancient their origins, are dominated by classical era artifacts and structures. It's rare to walk around a bronze or even iron age age site that retains the feel of an older era, excepting Egypt of course. I would recommend Petra for similar reasons. It's also much bigger and more impressive. Petra also still has a backwater feel, to contrast with your objection to Knossos.

raxxorrax 5y ago
Yeah, it is still worth a visit, I meant that only in comparison to the other Minoan sites on Crete. There are also some in Malia, but those were in a worse state than others. In Malia you could see another curious and living civilization that drives on motorized bicycles. I believe people called them the British. For the average tourist without too deep knowledge about archaeology (me), I found Phaistos more impressive, especially for that feeling that you mentioned. It isn't restored to that degree, but still impressive how much remains from this ancient civilization. Maybe it was just the vicinity of the city that made Knossos seem not that special in comparison. It isn't too far from Knossos, well worth a trip. I think it was just an hour by car from Knossos. I will certainly put Petra on the list to visit.
- dalbasal 5y ago
  Total tangent, but iirc, the lonely planet recommends driving past Malia without stopping... because of the "sunburnt british teens on quads" problem you mention. I'll make an admission, and hopefully my HN anonymity holds... I stopped for baked beans, chips and a pint. I don't really know why I did it, and I'm sorry.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Heh, to be honest we stopped there too. Our first time English breakfast was in Greece. I thought it funny that so many restaurants in the city had it on the menu. Felt a bit bad for ignoring the local cuisine, but it was quite tasty.
    - dalbasal 5y ago
      Sugar, pork fat and white bread... It's cheating, but it works. Side note. Backwater (or back alley) tavernas in Crete are amazing. I could spend half my life in them. The "eat where locals eat" applies, but keep in mind that locals don't eat until late. Being empty at 7pm is actually a good sign. Any place that serves stuffed zucchini flowers or goat in yogurt is a good bet. Beware the raki. Just because it's free, doesn't mean you should finish the bottle.
- jfengel 5y ago
  The Knossos site is remarkable, but like so much early archaeology, the reconstruction is more imaginative than factual, and somewhat destructive. There's a nice overview of the pros and cons at: https://smarthistory.org/conservation-knossos/ https://smarthistory.org/conservation-knossos/ That said, I do highly recommend it, as well as the museum in Herklion. (I didn't get to visit the Phaistos site; thanks for the recommendation.)

antman 5y ago

Knossos area ftom the ruins until the mountains what you saw is only what has been dug up. It would need thousands of years with the current yearly budget to dig up the area. For Mycenes which is not Minoan and a lot smaller the estimation was that they would need 200 years to excavate the whole city. Knossos is great, just get there early. Ignore the signs that explain the rooms. If you notice they say `According to Sleeman this was.... '. But nobody really knows. Late Minoans that stayed there and had lost the capability/technology to build that big, did not know the building' s function either. Indeed Linear A has too few samples but a code smell for new archeoligical decryptions is when they say it references 'Gods' and this doesn't. We will see though.