10 ms·

An iOS app update that annoys me

261 points by pcr910303 5y ago

watwut 5y ago
The new date field is not wrong, just a different format. It now uses normal date format humans use day.month.year.
- kevsim 5y ago
  You sure it's not month.day.year? And therein lies the problem.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  Some humans do. Increasingly more people around me are switching to ISO date, inspired by the fact major organizations do the switch for easier sorting in lists and directories. Changing behaviour like that in an export file in a format that traditionally is used for data exchange between computer systems, especially when not mentioned in the release notes, is a borderline bug.
smoldesu 5y ago
It's a shame this guy can't easily roll back to an earlier version of the app. This is one of the reasons why Android users back up APK files of the apps they like. That way, you're still free to use the software you already use, license withstanding.
- kccqzy 5y ago
  The thing is, it used to be possible on iOS but along the way Apple crippled it. Back in the days you'd connect iOS devices to your computer and sync them, the syncing can involve transferring *.ipa files from the device to the computer, and can also install new apps. If you wanted to roll back, just delete the installed app on the device and ask iTunes to reinstall it using the file from the computer. Eventually other features (app thinning?) got prioritized and this is no longer possible.
  - saurik 5y ago
    Starting in August, Google is requiring new apps in the Play Store to start using app bundles instead of APKs; I have never tried to work with these .apkm files, but I would be concerned Android is moving in the same direction here.
    - grishka 5y ago
      The big difference is that Android doesn't require apps to go through Google.
      - dan1234 5y ago
        They may not require it, but if companies the size of Epic can't survive away from the Play store[1], I don't hold much hope for indie apps. [1]https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortnite-google-play-store-available-third-party-software https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortn...
        Anon1096 5y ago
        I believe what the parent comment is saying is that since you can sideload apps on Android, if you want to roll back an update, all you need to do is grab the apk from a website such as apkmirror and then install it. The Play Store moving to app bundles shouldn't affect this.
        grishka 5y ago
        Yeah it's this. Android itself has no idea about Google Play requirements. edit: just tried to back up an app that was definitely installed as a bundle, and yes, the result was a regular apk
        saurik 5y ago
        That doesn't make any sense at all, even merely cryptographically (as you would need the signing key to merge the bundle back into a normal apk file and sign that new different file), and doesn't match the behaviors people talk about on various blogs and stack overflow.
- josefx 5y ago
  Steam has the steamdb listing all versions of packages that are available for download. As long as you have a steam account that "owns" a license for the software you can use that info to download any listed version through steam.
  - thatguy0900 5y ago
    Really? I've seen developers add old versions as "beta"s as a workaround to continue saves after a big patch so I assumed downloading old versions wasn't normally possible.
    - 1_player 5y ago
      It's not possible through the Steam interface, but there are third party apps on github that let you download old bundles. I used one recently, but I forget the name, sorry.
    - josefx 5y ago
      I am not sure if every old version stays available. However I had to binary search through versions of their VR tools once because only a few versions ran on my dev. system. The normal steam UI doesn't really expose the versions or provide an option to prevent updates, so the beta workaround might be necessary to tag these versions for end users.
- dubrocks 5y ago
  Wouldn’t that put an undue burden on app developers who have a server-side API if their users were running a bunch of different old versions, en masse?
  - avh02 5y ago
    I think of backwards compatibility in production as a responsibility (to an extent!)
Operyl 5y ago
You might be able to do a full encrypted iOS backup to your computer, which usually includes the Documents of most applications. It has to be "encrypted" though, or the backup excludes a lot of things.
sneak 5y ago
Thank Apple for deciding for you that you can never install any version of an app (on your own device!) that isn't current. More in the stream of neverending censorship bullshit from the App Store. Apps aren't even included in "backups", so restoring a device from backup won't actually put it into the state it was before: you get the current versions of any apps (if they are even still available, sometimes they aren't) re-downloaded at time of restore. This is, of course, contrary to the entire concept of what a backup is for. Of course, you can't download any apps at all without an Apple ID, and also providing your unchangeable hardware serial number to Apple (transmitted when you launch the App Store like a supercookie). You also can't get the Apple ID without providing a telephone number that can receive SMS, so you basically have to dox yourself to restore a working backup. I've had every single iPhone that has ever been produced (except the 3G - I went from 1 to 3GS), but I'm fairly confident I have purchased my last one.
- mttjj 5y ago
  What phone will you be switching to?
  - swiley 5y ago
    Linux phones are rapidly becoming more and more usable. The pinephone is already usable as a daily driver if you're willing to put up with a few hacks. For some segment of the population I think the trade offs they offer will be worth it and you'll probably start to see a decline in both Android and iOS market share.
    - asddubs 5y ago
      I would love a proper linux phone. Seems like they're still a couple of iterations away from really being "ready" from video reviews I've seen, but I'm excited about something happening at all in that space
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Since OpenMoko, any day soon, it is going to be the Year of Mobile GNU/Linux.
wincy 5y ago
I was super annoyed when the really fun Galaxy on Fire 2 HD that I paid $9 or so for got bought by a different company and suddenly had ads and micro transactions. I haven’t played it since. Also annoyed when Apple removed Binding of Isaac which I paid $15 for, my money and the app never to be seen again.
- mttjj 5y ago
  iOS apps are listed in your purchase history and available for re-download. Even those removed from sale on the store. So unless you’ve hidden the app (an unnecessarily complex process) I’m not sure why you’re not able to continue playing The Binding or Isaac. Unless of course the app is old enough that it doesn’t work on newer iOS versions. But that’s not what your post was implying.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    It's a little more complicated than that - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251183047 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251183047
  - emsy 5y ago
    I bought a game (Lumines) that downloaded all the necessary game files upon launching from a server. The server is now down. No way to play the game even after downloading it from the list. screw the app store.
    - no_wizard 5y ago
      Wait, isn't this the fault of the company that made the app? How does the App Store have anything to do with a company shutting down their server or not?
      - lloeki 5y ago
        I wish the App Store guidelines had a provision for disallowing that behaviour: if there's no online component (e.g something like WoW or Fortnite, that have regular content updates) then the app should be self-contained in the App Store. Sadly it used to be the case (not sure now) that the app size limit had Apple itself recommend that behaviour be implemented when it was too big.
qwertox 5y ago
In German we have a (somewhat unofficial) word for this: Verschlimmbesserung. Verbesserung = Improvement. Verschlimmerung = Aggravation. While the seller calls it a Verbesserung, the consumer calls it a Verschlimmerung. Officially it then is a Verschlimmbesserung.
- op00to 5y ago
  Is there a word in German for there being a word in German for that thing?
  - wruza 5y ago
    Deutschwortvorhandensein, I guess?
- nostromo 5y ago
  I love the expressiveness of German. This seems less like an improvement gone awry though, and more like a classic case of what in English we'd call "bait and switch."
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    I don't really see how these "there's a word for that in German" are much, if any, of an improvement over their English equivalents. Verschlimmbesserung Improvementagrrivation It's only three characters shorter, and English being a Germanic language, English is often referred to as simplified German, the languages maps pretty much one to one in the general case. English does the same sort of thing were you'll see something like use case become use-case and then usecase. This is called portmanteau in English, and here's the Wikipedia article, with some common examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau Edit to add: also compound words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)
    - coldtea 5y ago
      >I don't really see how these "there's a word for that in German" are much, if any, of an improvement over their English equivalents. Verschlimmbesserung Improvementagrrivation It's only three characters shorter The different is that the former is a legit syntax/form of a composite word in German (where you can combine words more freely), whereas Improvementagrrivation is not. Also the former conveys a meaning, whereas the latter would have people scratching their heads. The limitation with port-manteu and/or compound words in English is that you don't just create them and that's it: they also need to be adopted in order to be part of the language, accepted as words and understood as terms and intention (and not just an error of forgeting to add a space between two words), etc. In programming terms, one might say that German has first-class support for compound words, whereas with English you need to wait for each new word to slowly be added to the vocabulary.
Causality1 5y ago
Many apps follow a similar curve. They peak at a certain value/annoyance level and then the developers realize they're as high as they're going to go in terms of revenue. Then they start looking for ways to further monetize their users. For some of them that's adding dumb trendy features like social integration. For some that's locking previously available features behind a paywall. For a few it means selling your whole app to a third party to fill your users' phones with adware. It's disgusting and it's not getting better. Probably 50% of my screen time is spent on apps I no longer update because the new versions are unacceptable.
sprite 5y ago
I would link the blog post to the app developer. Maybe they will revert some of the changes or fix them.
bombcar 5y ago
Sounds like an opportunity for someone here to throw together an app that doesn’t have these deficiencies- charge a few bucks for it and slap it up.
- asddubs 5y ago
  and the cycle continues
darig 5y ago
What is stopping you from making your own app? This is barely above a "TODO" list app that you'll find ubiquitously in beginner tutorials. Screw those guys. Take your ball (your data), and go home.
mkoc 5y ago
Anyone knows good alternatives with a similar feature set?
- vestrigi 5y ago
  Coins by Yuzhou Zhu – seems very similar, has a few more features but not in an obtrusive manner
mensetmanusman 5y ago
I have used the iPad for over 10 years now, and I can now say that most of the apps that I have had in the past that were actually useful are now unusable or worse than they were. It is actually amazing that Apple’s ability to prevent people from downgrading aligns perfectly with developers wanting monthly subscriptions for everything. The only application that has gotten better consistently over the last 10 years has been iThoughts, which is one of the best tools ever for high-level abstract thinkers, and it is the only reason I use the iPad now.
- asddubs 5y ago
  I do wonder about the legality of an update taking features away and charging for it, as is the case in the article. It sounds like it's illegal from previous examples I've heard. I guess no one is going to sue over some relatively cheap niche app though
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    If the EU and Epic cases go anywhere, I want them to guarantee user consumer rights, like the right to downgrade both apps and firmware.
    - stephen_g 5y ago
      Is it going to be any use though? Certainly for apps that store everything locally, but the way things are going, when the cloud backend stops supporting the API version the older app uses, you're screwed... And even if apps do use offline storage, the problem you get is that eventually OS support moves on. I have this issue with Adobe Creative Cloud - I still use CS6 (pre-cloud) because it doesn't require a subscription, but now I have to keep an old machine dedicated for that on Mac OS X 10.14 (currently two versions behind - I expect it won't be supported for that much longer with updates)... What would get around that is requiring being able to point apps at your own server, and requiring open API documentation, but I don't see how that could really be workable in the real world...
      - 5y ago
techsupporter 5y ago
> with anything else meaning “upgrade to PRO” which, by the way, costs EUR 0.99 monthly or EUR 8.99 per annum. This is exactly what I expected to read when I started reading. So many apps have done this to me that I'm now hesitant to install, and become dependent on, any new apps. I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me). No, syncing doesn't count; I have iCloud and Nextcloud and the share sheet functionality for that. No, social features don't count either. This goes quadruple for apps that have a feature enabled and then sneak it behind a paywall many updates later. And when I write that I'm genuinely sorry, I really am! I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions. If that means fewer apps or fewer people making their living at being app developers, that is bad and I hope that applies pressure on Apple and Google to add features to their app stores that make a better balance.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  > I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me) What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you? > I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be?
  - techsupporter 5y ago
    > What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you? By way of examples, something like a weather application or access to content. Weather data is, at least until the end of humanity's existence on Earth, ever-changing and in need of update. > Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be? Because I do not want to wind up in a situation where an app developer suddenly turns on subscriptions and hides features of an app behind it, on the back of an opaque update. Plus, for most apps I am quite happy to pay for a particular version and be done. (I have no problem with paying for applications.) I want the finality of the transaction, that I've given my $5 or $10 or $20 or what-have-you a single time and our business is done. Application makers have done this since time immemorial, sometimes releasing complimentary bug fixes, other times not. I just don't like the idea that in order to retain access to a program that does all of its work on my device, I have to keep paying rent for it. Like the app at issue here, where it was doing what the user wanted and then poof, a change that cannot be reversed. I also understand that the current model on the app stores is not conducive to one-and-done application purchase transactions. Apple doesn't make it easy to do upgrade-by-version pricing, for example. In-app purchases are available, but they're not (by default, or nearly as widely) sharable on the family-level like outright purchases are.
m463 5y ago
This happened to me with countless ios apps. Just the same, I will count some of them: - I used an app (gas cubby) to keep track of my car mileage. You could enter your vehicles. When you filled up, you would select a vehicle and enter mileage and gallons and cost, and it would keep track of everything. You could export the data. You could also enter lots of other things, like VIN, insurance, service intervals, etc. It was a decent app and offline. And one update - everything changed. It made everything cloud based, uploaded all your very private information and added a login. jerks. - I used an app (camscanner+) that would let you take a picture of a document, it would find the edges and turn it into a .pdf file. This was sold to tencent, which had no privacy policy (broken link) and uploaded all your data to the cloud. When the privacy policy link eventually worked it was in super ambiguous broken english and basically said they use all your personal information. - I used an app called adblock ios that created a VPN at 127.0.0.1 and allowed you to filter your phone traffic. Apple made them change (cripple) it. Happily I read the 1-star reviews and didn't update. I think I'm a pretty astute user, the general population just has to get used to being worked over in this fashion. Apple is 100% in the wrong here. You should: - be able to know what your phone is doing, what sites apps are contacting - be able to firewall your phone - even to apple - know of changes - especially change of policies/behavior/ownership before installing an app - be able to revert apps I think the GPL is becoming more and more important as this stuff has taken root.
- twobitshifter 5y ago
  iOS has a good document scanner built into the files app that creates PDFs. You need to long press and select scan document.
  - m463 5y ago
    Yeah I was happy when they added scanning to the notes app, which I believe was the first time apple added scanning (the time period was before files).
  - schlupfknoten 5y ago
    When I tried out this feature recently, the image resolution in the exported PDFs was abysmal (though it looked fine in the Notes app).
32gbsd 5y ago
oh the good old app hell in which we live.
anoncow 5y ago
Sadly, there is no way for you to install an older version of the app on iOS.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Someone remake this guy the previous version of the app.
blendergeek 5y ago
Here is an idea: Apple uses their App Store rules to ensure a good experience for customers. The descriptions on apps must accurately reflect what the app is about. What if Apple required the changelog on app updates to accurately reflect what changed? This would create a better experience for users and is exactly the sort of thing I would want in my walled garden.
- illnewsthat 5y ago
  They do. [1] > 2.3.12 Apps must clearly describe new features and product changes in their “What’s New” text. Simple bug fixes, security updates, and performance improvements may rely on a generic description, but more significant changes must be listed in the notes. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#accurate-metadata https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#acc...
  - blendergeek 5y ago
    I guess I'm advocating for better enforcement then. If we have a walled garden, I want the garden well tended.
  - tempodox 5y ago
    But it's not enforced. Far too often, “bug fixes and performance improvements” is a blanket statement that hides all kinds of changes.
interpol_p 5y ago
I don't know if the app was originally free with in-app-purchases when the author obtained it, but it currently is: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/id627878792#?platform=iphone https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/i... The same developer appears to offer a "Pro" version of their app with no in-app purchases or subscriptions. It is priced around $20: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-pro/id1289911732#?platform=iphone https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-pro/id1289911732#?... I would assume that this Pro version is intended to be completely unlocked all the time, while the free version is being monetized and directed towards people who want to try something but aren't dedicated users (Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle)
- withinboredom 5y ago
  > Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle Most in-app purchases can't be shared between family members. I will never buy an in-app purchase again. I learned this the hard way after spending $20 on a children's game and my son could only use my phone to play it -- not my partner's. It was really annoying to always have to give up my phone when on the plane/train.
  - interpol_p 5y ago
    Oh I agree that's annoying! Though it looks like this has finally changed in iOS 14 and Big Sur: https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/03/users-can-now-share-in-app-purchases-and-subscriptions-via-icloud-family-sharing/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/03/users-can-now-share-in-app-pu... But developers need to manually enable family sharing for in-app purchases. So this is now down to the grace of individual developers
- dustyharddrive 5y ago
  OmniFocus has a similar thing, with a standalone “Enterprise” edition (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/omnifocus-3-enterprise/id1484755344 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/omnifocus-3-enterprise/id14847...), where IAP is replaced with an upfront price. I believe it’s because schools can get a volume discount on paid apps but not IAP, and Omni says it “simplifies deployment” for enterprise users.
OkGoDoIt 5y ago
Because of things like this I stopped updating apps a long time ago. But now many apps have a “phone home“ aspect, where it will literally lock you out of using the app if you don’t upgrade to the latest version every so often. Which is especially annoying if you need to approve a transaction that was blocked on your credit card but then you can’t do it until you update the app but your signal isn’t great, or you need to reply to a Facebook message but even though you can see the message the app refuses to function until you update. And a million other frustrating examples. I miss the days of things not changing out from under me without me having any say about it. I remember a time when I looked forward to updates because they brought interesting new functionality or, you know, actually fixed bugs. And when I didn’t like a new version of something, I could simply go back and reinstall the old version and keep using that.
- donpott 5y ago
  Absolutely agree. If an app stops working just to show a message like "your App is out of date, download the latest version to continue", it's an instant one-star review from me.
altitudinous 5y ago
Unfortunately Apple has made advertising in free apps unviable with their universally loved by users iOS14.5 update. "Stick it to the man!!!" Unfortunately, this means advertisers who funded free apps cannot pay for apps any longer. End users must start paying for apps now. I have converted my apps to subscription now away from advertising. I am making a more steady income. I will convert my last app in the next month or two. Apple sell more devices with this privacy change, and they get big profit in taking a 30% cut of subscriptions. They took 0% cut of advertising. So many end users choose to abuse app developers who funded apps through advertising. Instead this is a self inflicted wound, end users support Apple making this privacy change, so now end users have to pay for apps instead of advertisers.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  If you continue to see users as the enemy, it is likely you will not have much business success. In my experience, organizations that follow on that path don't bring marketable value for much longer. So, what is the alternative? The same as it was with software ever since the dawn of computing: Sell major versions. Provide bugfixes in minor versions. Be more like GoodNotes, who follow that exact model.
  - altitudinous 5y ago
    I don’t see users as the enemy! Where did you pull that absolutely stupid idea from? ** DON'T ATTACK DEVS **. YOUR BEEF IS WITH A FRUIT COMPANY. My post states the facts - advertisers used to pay for the apps - now this has been stopped so users now pay for the apps! My business is more successful because of this change. Users love the content in my apps. This change has not and will not hurt me financially. I am trying to explain why the dev made that change to you! Attacking the dev or offering junior level inexperienced advice will make no difference. Please take note of the reason why and who made the change that did this to you.
theshadowknows 5y ago
I’m in the minority on this one, I’m sure. But the subscription apps don’t bother me at all. I don’t even know how many I have..I don’t need to since the App Store manages it for me. I know that I pay for Concepts, Halide, and Overcast. But I don’t know what else. I don’t even know how much those apps cost..but I like using them and I want them to keep working well. Which means the developers need to be able to earn a living. Besides, what’s the use buying a phone that costs two thousand dollars if I can’t splurge here and there and drop a few bucks on an app that I like?
KMag 5y ago
It's really unfortunate that there are no commercial incentives to provide strict sandboxing for outdated versions of applications, rather than only allowing the latest version to be installed. There's a strong public good in preventing versions of applications with known vulnerabilities from accessing the network (or perhapse restricted to an (possibly empty) allowlist of domains). However, the inability to save old installers and run old applications in some cases leads to lost functionality, which is sometimes effectively lost data. I got my wife to start using a password manager, but I really should have given her some guidance. She picked one that was popular in her native language. I also encouraged her to upgrade iOS on her phone. We backed up her phone and upgraded, but the new iOS version would drain her fully charged phone in an hour or so. So, we restored iOS from backup. Unfortunately, her password manager had been discontinued, and iOS backups just contain effectively remote symlinks to installed apps rather than containing the actual binaries. The discontinued password manager then showed up as something like a stub displaying an error message that the app could not be installed. Luckily, I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back. I would have much preferred a warning that the backed-up version was no longer supported, and be given 3 options: (1) install the last released version in a locked-down sandbox (2) install the backed-up version in a locked-down sandox or (3) uninstall the app.
- quench 5y ago
  > I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back. WTF? No wonder it got pulled! I am curious as to why you don’t just use the native password manager?
  - KMag 5y ago
    I don't use iOS Keychain because I've been an Android user since Google gave all employees a free HTC G1 for the holidays. I had an original iPhone, but I don't recall that having Keychain. As for why my wife doesn't use the iOS Keychain, I'm not sure. I try to avoid pressuring her to use one solution or another. If I pressure her to use some solution and there's a bug, then that's on me.
irrational 5y ago
I don't have a single subscription app. I've never found one that was a must have. If you have apps that you pay a subscript for, what are those apps?
v8engine 5y ago
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/id627878792 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/i... Did the developer change since his screenshot?
SylvieLorxu 5y ago
>Data export has changed from “export all data via CSV” to “export CSV of the last 7 days” with anything else meaning “upgrade to PRO” which, by the way, costs EUR 0.99 monthly or EUR 8.99 per annum. As a German, you can luckily still request your data using the GDPR. I'd suggest finding an alternative (preferably Open Source) app and giving them your export file to ask if they can add support to import this other format. I am doing this with my app too, just supporting importing from other apps' GDPR-extracted data. An example: https://github.com/TheLastProject/Catima/issues/168 https://github.com/TheLastProject/Catima/issues/168
wruza 5y ago
Honestly almost all market-guessing apps are crap from the start. And those that aren’t only fit you accidentally. For apps to be useful, users have to create them themselves or join into groups that discuss features face to face and quickly implement these, without apps being a private property (eula) or an unhealthy pride (foss). The main stopper for that is an enormous complexity of the app programming and the semantic abyss it turned into, on all platforms. Today it feels like 90’s programming was actually simpler (vba, delphi, various game makers), and every modern programming tool is just a gatekeeper of huge budgets. If in 1990s I’d have to connect(mapStateToProps) or something similar to draw few spaceships on the screen, I’d become a lawyer or a salesman. And that’s still relevant. If you want cool apps, reduce salesmen and increase makers. Summon them from regular smart people of all ages right now and stop maximizing young geek culture.
swiley 5y ago
This is what an OS that doesn't allow people to build quick hacks in TCL or Python looks like: tons of pay-for software and data-vacuums.

261 points by pcr910303 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

The new date field is not wrong, just a different format. It now uses normal date format humans use day.month.year.

kevsim 5y ago
You sure it's not month.day.year? And therein lies the problem.
DocTomoe 5y ago
Some humans do. Increasingly more people around me are switching to ISO date, inspired by the fact major organizations do the switch for easier sorting in lists and directories. Changing behaviour like that in an export file in a format that traditionally is used for data exchange between computer systems, especially when not mentioned in the release notes, is a borderline bug.

smoldesu 5y ago

It's a shame this guy can't easily roll back to an earlier version of the app. This is one of the reasons why Android users back up APK files of the apps they like. That way, you're still free to use the software you already use, license withstanding.

kccqzy 5y ago
The thing is, it used to be possible on iOS but along the way Apple crippled it. Back in the days you'd connect iOS devices to your computer and sync them, the syncing can involve transferring *.ipa files from the device to the computer, and can also install new apps. If you wanted to roll back, just delete the installed app on the device and ask iTunes to reinstall it using the file from the computer. Eventually other features (app thinning?) got prioritized and this is no longer possible.
- saurik 5y ago
  Starting in August, Google is requiring new apps in the Play Store to start using app bundles instead of APKs; I have never tried to work with these .apkm files, but I would be concerned Android is moving in the same direction here.
  - grishka 5y ago
    The big difference is that Android doesn't require apps to go through Google.
    - dan1234 5y ago
      They may not require it, but if companies the size of Epic can't survive away from the Play store[1], I don't hold much hope for indie apps. [1]https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortnite-google-play-store-available-third-party-software https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortn...
      - Anon1096 5y ago
        I believe what the parent comment is saying is that since you can sideload apps on Android, if you want to roll back an update, all you need to do is grab the apk from a website such as apkmirror and then install it. The Play Store moving to app bundles shouldn't affect this.
        grishka 5y ago
        Yeah it's this. Android itself has no idea about Google Play requirements. edit: just tried to back up an app that was definitely installed as a bundle, and yes, the result was a regular apk
        saurik 5y ago
        That doesn't make any sense at all, even merely cryptographically (as you would need the signing key to merge the bundle back into a normal apk file and sign that new different file), and doesn't match the behaviors people talk about on various blogs and stack overflow.
josefx 5y ago
Steam has the steamdb listing all versions of packages that are available for download. As long as you have a steam account that "owns" a license for the software you can use that info to download any listed version through steam.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  Really? I've seen developers add old versions as "beta"s as a workaround to continue saves after a big patch so I assumed downloading old versions wasn't normally possible.
  - 1_player 5y ago
    It's not possible through the Steam interface, but there are third party apps on github that let you download old bundles. I used one recently, but I forget the name, sorry.
  - josefx 5y ago
    I am not sure if every old version stays available. However I had to binary search through versions of their VR tools once because only a few versions ran on my dev. system. The normal steam UI doesn't really expose the versions or provide an option to prevent updates, so the beta workaround might be necessary to tag these versions for end users.
dubrocks 5y ago
Wouldn’t that put an undue burden on app developers who have a server-side API if their users were running a bunch of different old versions, en masse?
- avh02 5y ago
  I think of backwards compatibility in production as a responsibility (to an extent!)

Operyl 5y ago

You might be able to do a full encrypted iOS backup to your computer, which usually includes the Documents of most applications. It has to be "encrypted" though, or the backup excludes a lot of things.

sneak 5y ago

Thank Apple for deciding for you that you can never install any version of an app (on your own device!) that isn't current. More in the stream of neverending censorship bullshit from the App Store. Apps aren't even included in "backups", so restoring a device from backup won't actually put it into the state it was before: you get the current versions of any apps (if they are even still available, sometimes they aren't) re-downloaded at time of restore. This is, of course, contrary to the entire concept of what a backup is for. Of course, you can't download any apps at all without an Apple ID, and also providing your unchangeable hardware serial number to Apple (transmitted when you launch the App Store like a supercookie). You also can't get the Apple ID without providing a telephone number that can receive SMS, so you basically have to dox yourself to restore a working backup. I've had every single iPhone that has ever been produced (except the 3G - I went from 1 to 3GS), but I'm fairly confident I have purchased my last one.

mttjj 5y ago
What phone will you be switching to?
- swiley 5y ago
  Linux phones are rapidly becoming more and more usable. The pinephone is already usable as a daily driver if you're willing to put up with a few hacks. For some segment of the population I think the trade offs they offer will be worth it and you'll probably start to see a decline in both Android and iOS market share.
  - asddubs 5y ago
    I would love a proper linux phone. Seems like they're still a couple of iterations away from really being "ready" from video reviews I've seen, but I'm excited about something happening at all in that space
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Since OpenMoko, any day soon, it is going to be the Year of Mobile GNU/Linux.

wincy 5y ago

I was super annoyed when the really fun Galaxy on Fire 2 HD that I paid $9 or so for got bought by a different company and suddenly had ads and micro transactions. I haven’t played it since. Also annoyed when Apple removed Binding of Isaac which I paid $15 for, my money and the app never to be seen again.

mttjj 5y ago
iOS apps are listed in your purchase history and available for re-download. Even those removed from sale on the store. So unless you’ve hidden the app (an unnecessarily complex process) I’m not sure why you’re not able to continue playing The Binding or Isaac. Unless of course the app is old enough that it doesn’t work on newer iOS versions. But that’s not what your post was implying.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  It's a little more complicated than that - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251183047 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251183047
- emsy 5y ago
  I bought a game (Lumines) that downloaded all the necessary game files upon launching from a server. The server is now down. No way to play the game even after downloading it from the list. screw the app store.
  - no_wizard 5y ago
    Wait, isn't this the fault of the company that made the app? How does the App Store have anything to do with a company shutting down their server or not?
    - lloeki 5y ago
      I wish the App Store guidelines had a provision for disallowing that behaviour: if there's no online component (e.g something like WoW or Fortnite, that have regular content updates) then the app should be self-contained in the App Store. Sadly it used to be the case (not sure now) that the app size limit had Apple itself recommend that behaviour be implemented when it was too big.

qwertox 5y ago

In German we have a (somewhat unofficial) word for this: Verschlimmbesserung. Verbesserung = Improvement. Verschlimmerung = Aggravation. While the seller calls it a Verbesserung, the consumer calls it a Verschlimmerung. Officially it then is a Verschlimmbesserung.

op00to 5y ago
Is there a word in German for there being a word in German for that thing?
- wruza 5y ago
  Deutschwortvorhandensein, I guess?
nostromo 5y ago
I love the expressiveness of German. This seems less like an improvement gone awry though, and more like a classic case of what in English we'd call "bait and switch."
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  I don't really see how these "there's a word for that in German" are much, if any, of an improvement over their English equivalents. Verschlimmbesserung Improvementagrrivation It's only three characters shorter, and English being a Germanic language, English is often referred to as simplified German, the languages maps pretty much one to one in the general case. English does the same sort of thing were you'll see something like use case become use-case and then usecase. This is called portmanteau in English, and here's the Wikipedia article, with some common examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau Edit to add: also compound words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >I don't really see how these "there's a word for that in German" are much, if any, of an improvement over their English equivalents. Verschlimmbesserung Improvementagrrivation It's only three characters shorter The different is that the former is a legit syntax/form of a composite word in German (where you can combine words more freely), whereas Improvementagrrivation is not. Also the former conveys a meaning, whereas the latter would have people scratching their heads. The limitation with port-manteu and/or compound words in English is that you don't just create them and that's it: they also need to be adopted in order to be part of the language, accepted as words and understood as terms and intention (and not just an error of forgeting to add a space between two words), etc. In programming terms, one might say that German has first-class support for compound words, whereas with English you need to wait for each new word to slowly be added to the vocabulary.

Causality1 5y ago

Many apps follow a similar curve. They peak at a certain value/annoyance level and then the developers realize they're as high as they're going to go in terms of revenue. Then they start looking for ways to further monetize their users. For some of them that's adding dumb trendy features like social integration. For some that's locking previously available features behind a paywall. For a few it means selling your whole app to a third party to fill your users' phones with adware. It's disgusting and it's not getting better. Probably 50% of my screen time is spent on apps I no longer update because the new versions are unacceptable.

sprite 5y ago

I would link the blog post to the app developer. Maybe they will revert some of the changes or fix them.

bombcar 5y ago

Sounds like an opportunity for someone here to throw together an app that doesn’t have these deficiencies- charge a few bucks for it and slap it up.

asddubs 5y ago
and the cycle continues

darig 5y ago

What is stopping you from making your own app? This is barely above a "TODO" list app that you'll find ubiquitously in beginner tutorials. Screw those guys. Take your ball (your data), and go home.

mkoc 5y ago

Anyone knows good alternatives with a similar feature set?

vestrigi 5y ago
Coins by Yuzhou Zhu – seems very similar, has a few more features but not in an obtrusive manner

mensetmanusman 5y ago

I have used the iPad for over 10 years now, and I can now say that most of the apps that I have had in the past that were actually useful are now unusable or worse than they were. It is actually amazing that Apple’s ability to prevent people from downgrading aligns perfectly with developers wanting monthly subscriptions for everything. The only application that has gotten better consistently over the last 10 years has been iThoughts, which is one of the best tools ever for high-level abstract thinkers, and it is the only reason I use the iPad now.

asddubs 5y ago
I do wonder about the legality of an update taking features away and charging for it, as is the case in the article. It sounds like it's illegal from previous examples I've heard. I guess no one is going to sue over some relatively cheap niche app though
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  If the EU and Epic cases go anywhere, I want them to guarantee user consumer rights, like the right to downgrade both apps and firmware.
  - stephen_g 5y ago
    Is it going to be any use though? Certainly for apps that store everything locally, but the way things are going, when the cloud backend stops supporting the API version the older app uses, you're screwed... And even if apps do use offline storage, the problem you get is that eventually OS support moves on. I have this issue with Adobe Creative Cloud - I still use CS6 (pre-cloud) because it doesn't require a subscription, but now I have to keep an old machine dedicated for that on Mac OS X 10.14 (currently two versions behind - I expect it won't be supported for that much longer with updates)... What would get around that is requiring being able to point apps at your own server, and requiring open API documentation, but I don't see how that could really be workable in the real world...
    - 5y ago

techsupporter 5y ago

> with anything else meaning “upgrade to PRO” which, by the way, costs EUR 0.99 monthly or EUR 8.99 per annum. This is exactly what I expected to read when I started reading. So many apps have done this to me that I'm now hesitant to install, and become dependent on, any new apps. I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me). No, syncing doesn't count; I have iCloud and Nextcloud and the share sheet functionality for that. No, social features don't count either. This goes quadruple for apps that have a feature enabled and then sneak it behind a paywall many updates later. And when I write that I'm genuinely sorry, I really am! I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions. If that means fewer apps or fewer people making their living at being app developers, that is bad and I hope that applies pressure on Apple and Google to add features to their app stores that make a better balance.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago
> I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me) What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you? > I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be?
- techsupporter 5y ago
  > What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you? By way of examples, something like a weather application or access to content. Weather data is, at least until the end of humanity's existence on Earth, ever-changing and in need of update. > Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be? Because I do not want to wind up in a situation where an app developer suddenly turns on subscriptions and hides features of an app behind it, on the back of an opaque update. Plus, for most apps I am quite happy to pay for a particular version and be done. (I have no problem with paying for applications.) I want the finality of the transaction, that I've given my $5 or $10 or $20 or what-have-you a single time and our business is done. Application makers have done this since time immemorial, sometimes releasing complimentary bug fixes, other times not. I just don't like the idea that in order to retain access to a program that does all of its work on my device, I have to keep paying rent for it. Like the app at issue here, where it was doing what the user wanted and then poof, a change that cannot be reversed. I also understand that the current model on the app stores is not conducive to one-and-done application purchase transactions. Apple doesn't make it easy to do upgrade-by-version pricing, for example. In-app purchases are available, but they're not (by default, or nearly as widely) sharable on the family-level like outright purchases are.

m463 5y ago

This happened to me with countless ios apps. Just the same, I will count some of them: - I used an app (gas cubby) to keep track of my car mileage. You could enter your vehicles. When you filled up, you would select a vehicle and enter mileage and gallons and cost, and it would keep track of everything. You could export the data. You could also enter lots of other things, like VIN, insurance, service intervals, etc. It was a decent app and offline. And one update - everything changed. It made everything cloud based, uploaded all your very private information and added a login. jerks. - I used an app (camscanner+) that would let you take a picture of a document, it would find the edges and turn it into a .pdf file. This was sold to tencent, which had no privacy policy (broken link) and uploaded all your data to the cloud. When the privacy policy link eventually worked it was in super ambiguous broken english and basically said they use all your personal information. - I used an app called adblock ios that created a VPN at 127.0.0.1 and allowed you to filter your phone traffic. Apple made them change (cripple) it. Happily I read the 1-star reviews and didn't update. I think I'm a pretty astute user, the general population just has to get used to being worked over in this fashion. Apple is 100% in the wrong here. You should: - be able to know what your phone is doing, what sites apps are contacting - be able to firewall your phone - even to apple - know of changes - especially change of policies/behavior/ownership before installing an app - be able to revert apps I think the GPL is becoming more and more important as this stuff has taken root.

twobitshifter 5y ago
iOS has a good document scanner built into the files app that creates PDFs. You need to long press and select scan document.
- m463 5y ago
  Yeah I was happy when they added scanning to the notes app, which I believe was the first time apple added scanning (the time period was before files).
- schlupfknoten 5y ago
  When I tried out this feature recently, the image resolution in the exported PDFs was abysmal (though it looked fine in the Notes app).

32gbsd 5y ago

oh the good old app hell in which we live.

anoncow 5y ago

Sadly, there is no way for you to install an older version of the app on iOS.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Someone remake this guy the previous version of the app.

blendergeek 5y ago

Here is an idea: Apple uses their App Store rules to ensure a good experience for customers. The descriptions on apps must accurately reflect what the app is about. What if Apple required the changelog on app updates to accurately reflect what changed? This would create a better experience for users and is exactly the sort of thing I would want in my walled garden.

illnewsthat 5y ago
They do. [1] > 2.3.12 Apps must clearly describe new features and product changes in their “What’s New” text. Simple bug fixes, security updates, and performance improvements may rely on a generic description, but more significant changes must be listed in the notes. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#accurate-metadata https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#acc...
- blendergeek 5y ago
  I guess I'm advocating for better enforcement then. If we have a walled garden, I want the garden well tended.
- tempodox 5y ago
  But it's not enforced. Far too often, “bug fixes and performance improvements” is a blanket statement that hides all kinds of changes.

interpol_p 5y ago

I don't know if the app was originally free with in-app-purchases when the author obtained it, but it currently is: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/id627878792#?platform=iphone https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/i... The same developer appears to offer a "Pro" version of their app with no in-app purchases or subscriptions. It is priced around $20: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-pro/id1289911732#?platform=iphone https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-pro/id1289911732#?... I would assume that this Pro version is intended to be completely unlocked all the time, while the free version is being monetized and directed towards people who want to try something but aren't dedicated users (Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle)

withinboredom 5y ago
> Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle Most in-app purchases can't be shared between family members. I will never buy an in-app purchase again. I learned this the hard way after spending $20 on a children's game and my son could only use my phone to play it -- not my partner's. It was really annoying to always have to give up my phone when on the plane/train.
- interpol_p 5y ago
  Oh I agree that's annoying! Though it looks like this has finally changed in iOS 14 and Big Sur: https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/03/users-can-now-share-in-app-purchases-and-subscriptions-via-icloud-family-sharing/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/03/users-can-now-share-in-app-pu... But developers need to manually enable family sharing for in-app purchases. So this is now down to the grace of individual developers
dustyharddrive 5y ago
OmniFocus has a similar thing, with a standalone “Enterprise” edition (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/omnifocus-3-enterprise/id1484755344 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/omnifocus-3-enterprise/id14847...), where IAP is replaced with an upfront price. I believe it’s because schools can get a volume discount on paid apps but not IAP, and Omni says it “simplifies deployment” for enterprise users.

OkGoDoIt 5y ago

Because of things like this I stopped updating apps a long time ago. But now many apps have a “phone home“ aspect, where it will literally lock you out of using the app if you don’t upgrade to the latest version every so often. Which is especially annoying if you need to approve a transaction that was blocked on your credit card but then you can’t do it until you update the app but your signal isn’t great, or you need to reply to a Facebook message but even though you can see the message the app refuses to function until you update. And a million other frustrating examples. I miss the days of things not changing out from under me without me having any say about it. I remember a time when I looked forward to updates because they brought interesting new functionality or, you know, actually fixed bugs. And when I didn’t like a new version of something, I could simply go back and reinstall the old version and keep using that.

donpott 5y ago
Absolutely agree. If an app stops working just to show a message like "your App is out of date, download the latest version to continue", it's an instant one-star review from me.

altitudinous 5y ago

Unfortunately Apple has made advertising in free apps unviable with their universally loved by users iOS14.5 update. "Stick it to the man!!!" Unfortunately, this means advertisers who funded free apps cannot pay for apps any longer. End users must start paying for apps now. I have converted my apps to subscription now away from advertising. I am making a more steady income. I will convert my last app in the next month or two. Apple sell more devices with this privacy change, and they get big profit in taking a 30% cut of subscriptions. They took 0% cut of advertising. So many end users choose to abuse app developers who funded apps through advertising. Instead this is a self inflicted wound, end users support Apple making this privacy change, so now end users have to pay for apps instead of advertisers.

DocTomoe 5y ago
If you continue to see users as the enemy, it is likely you will not have much business success. In my experience, organizations that follow on that path don't bring marketable value for much longer. So, what is the alternative? The same as it was with software ever since the dawn of computing: Sell major versions. Provide bugfixes in minor versions. Be more like GoodNotes, who follow that exact model.
- altitudinous 5y ago
  I don’t see users as the enemy! Where did you pull that absolutely stupid idea from? ** DON'T ATTACK DEVS **. YOUR BEEF IS WITH A FRUIT COMPANY. My post states the facts - advertisers used to pay for the apps - now this has been stopped so users now pay for the apps! My business is more successful because of this change. Users love the content in my apps. This change has not and will not hurt me financially. I am trying to explain why the dev made that change to you! Attacking the dev or offering junior level inexperienced advice will make no difference. Please take note of the reason why and who made the change that did this to you.

theshadowknows 5y ago

I’m in the minority on this one, I’m sure. But the subscription apps don’t bother me at all. I don’t even know how many I have..I don’t need to since the App Store manages it for me. I know that I pay for Concepts, Halide, and Overcast. But I don’t know what else. I don’t even know how much those apps cost..but I like using them and I want them to keep working well. Which means the developers need to be able to earn a living. Besides, what’s the use buying a phone that costs two thousand dollars if I can’t splurge here and there and drop a few bucks on an app that I like?

KMag 5y ago

It's really unfortunate that there are no commercial incentives to provide strict sandboxing for outdated versions of applications, rather than only allowing the latest version to be installed. There's a strong public good in preventing versions of applications with known vulnerabilities from accessing the network (or perhapse restricted to an (possibly empty) allowlist of domains). However, the inability to save old installers and run old applications in some cases leads to lost functionality, which is sometimes effectively lost data. I got my wife to start using a password manager, but I really should have given her some guidance. She picked one that was popular in her native language. I also encouraged her to upgrade iOS on her phone. We backed up her phone and upgraded, but the new iOS version would drain her fully charged phone in an hour or so. So, we restored iOS from backup. Unfortunately, her password manager had been discontinued, and iOS backups just contain effectively remote symlinks to installed apps rather than containing the actual binaries. The discontinued password manager then showed up as something like a stub displaying an error message that the app could not be installed. Luckily, I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back. I would have much preferred a warning that the backed-up version was no longer supported, and be given 3 options: (1) install the last released version in a locked-down sandbox (2) install the backed-up version in a locked-down sandox or (3) uninstall the app.

quench 5y ago
> I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back. WTF? No wonder it got pulled! I am curious as to why you don’t just use the native password manager?
- KMag 5y ago
  I don't use iOS Keychain because I've been an Android user since Google gave all employees a free HTC G1 for the holidays. I had an original iPhone, but I don't recall that having Keychain. As for why my wife doesn't use the iOS Keychain, I'm not sure. I try to avoid pressuring her to use one solution or another. If I pressure her to use some solution and there's a bug, then that's on me.

irrational 5y ago

I don't have a single subscription app. I've never found one that was a must have. If you have apps that you pay a subscript for, what are those apps?

v8engine 5y ago

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/id627878792 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/i... Did the developer change since his screenshot?

SylvieLorxu 5y ago

>Data export has changed from “export all data via CSV” to “export CSV of the last 7 days” with anything else meaning “upgrade to PRO” which, by the way, costs EUR 0.99 monthly or EUR 8.99 per annum. As a German, you can luckily still request your data using the GDPR. I'd suggest finding an alternative (preferably Open Source) app and giving them your export file to ask if they can add support to import this other format. I am doing this with my app too, just supporting importing from other apps' GDPR-extracted data. An example: https://github.com/TheLastProject/Catima/issues/168 https://github.com/TheLastProject/Catima/issues/168

wruza 5y ago

Honestly almost all market-guessing apps are crap from the start. And those that aren’t only fit you accidentally. For apps to be useful, users have to create them themselves or join into groups that discuss features face to face and quickly implement these, without apps being a private property (eula) or an unhealthy pride (foss). The main stopper for that is an enormous complexity of the app programming and the semantic abyss it turned into, on all platforms. Today it feels like 90’s programming was actually simpler (vba, delphi, various game makers), and every modern programming tool is just a gatekeeper of huge budgets. If in 1990s I’d have to connect(mapStateToProps) or something similar to draw few spaceships on the screen, I’d become a lawyer or a salesman. And that’s still relevant. If you want cool apps, reduce salesmen and increase makers. Summon them from regular smart people of all ages right now and stop maximizing young geek culture.

swiley 5y ago

This is what an OS that doesn't allow people to build quick hacks in TCL or Python looks like: tons of pay-for software and data-vacuums.