5 ms·

It would make a lot of sense if the Koreans could fab for boycotted Chinese customers (HiSilicon etc.). Instead of trying to steal TSMC's business at Qualcomm,

It would make a lot of sense if the Koreans could fab for boycotted Chinese customers (HiSilicon etc.). Instead of trying to steal TSMC's business at Qualcomm, Apple, AMD etc.

adventured 5y ago
Strategically it wouldn't make sense. South Korea shouldn't do that because the US is their defense umbrella and helping China in such a manner would go against the spirit of that pact, de facto helping to undermine the containment system being placed on China by the West.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > de facto helping to undermine the containment system being placed on China by the West. Tell it to every US ally trying its hardeest to play the situation
- tooltalk 5y ago
  so true. Aside from SK's geopolitical alliance with the US, South Korea has so much to gain from the West's banishment of China than anyone else. The current situation between the West vs China is the best thing happened to South Korea since the Japan-US trade war that helped SK's semiconductor manufacturing industry get their foot in the door and eventually surpass all their Japanese rivals in the 80's and 90's.
tooltalk 5y ago
@dirtyid: makes no sense for China to use the Korean fabs. They could simply hire more Taiwanese engineers, aka ex-TSMC'ers, who had been the main drivers behind the development of China's chip industry so far.
- varispeed 5y ago
  And that's problematic. I think Taiwan should be given ultimatum - either drop any business with China or they should get sanctions.
  - Infinitesimus 5y ago
    Given an ultimatum by whom? And is the ultimatum issuer OK with the other side of the coin? (That China will likely invade Taiwan the moment there's no global economic incentive not to?) Global politics are always very messy and ultimatums don't help.
  - manquer 5y ago
    It is not like they are being kidnapped/brainwashed to work there aka Soviet Union style, or their genocidal war crimes are ignored like the US did with Nazi scientists. Chinese companies are simply offering a good financial package to these people with valuable skill sets. TSMC can pay it's employees to retain they can certainly afford to. Taiwan is not officially exporting talent to China. No country wants their best people to leave, US and countries have used their wealth to attract the best from developing countries and benefited immensely, china is also using a similar strategy
threeseed 5y ago
It doesn't make any business sense at all. Huawei doesn't have much of a future outside of China and the increasing distrust towards CPP doesn't look like changing this anytime soon. So why would you want to help them out instead of trying to win business from US/EU companies who are desperately looking to diversify.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  That is a very western-centric view. Outside of the west and India, Huawei is still going strong. Support for China is quite high in the middle east and in Africa, where many people are skeptical of western narratives about China. Furthermore, Huawei isn't the only Chinese party that needs advanced chips. Other Chinese phone makers such as Oppo and Xiaomi aren't banned. But they have become wary of US dependence and are seeking to decouple their semiconductor supply chain from the US. To them, while Korean suppliers are more risky than Chinese suppliers (which still need time to catch up), it's still less risky than TSMC.
  - throwaway4good 5y ago
    Exactly. If Korean semi can position itself correctly it has a massive opportunity.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    This comment would have been more accurate a year or two ago. But with the Belt and Road Initiative struggling to deliver on many of its infrastructure projects countries are increasingly reluctant to get back into bed with China. More so now that the world has seen what happens if you don't bow down to China's every demand i.e. Australian style economic blackout. My point still stands that if I was a fab right now I would be far more attracted to the growth prospects of US/EU companies than Chinese ones.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      What do you make of RCEP then?

It would make a lot of sense if the Koreans could fab for boycotted Chinese customers (HiSilicon etc.). Instead of trying to steal TSMC's business at Qualcomm, Apple, AMD etc.

adventured 5y ago

Strategically it wouldn't make sense. South Korea shouldn't do that because the US is their defense umbrella and helping China in such a manner would go against the spirit of that pact, de facto helping to undermine the containment system being placed on China by the West.

baybal2 5y ago
> de facto helping to undermine the containment system being placed on China by the West. Tell it to every US ally trying its hardeest to play the situation
tooltalk 5y ago
so true. Aside from SK's geopolitical alliance with the US, South Korea has so much to gain from the West's banishment of China than anyone else. The current situation between the West vs China is the best thing happened to South Korea since the Japan-US trade war that helped SK's semiconductor manufacturing industry get their foot in the door and eventually surpass all their Japanese rivals in the 80's and 90's.

tooltalk 5y ago

@dirtyid: makes no sense for China to use the Korean fabs. They could simply hire more Taiwanese engineers, aka ex-TSMC'ers, who had been the main drivers behind the development of China's chip industry so far.

varispeed 5y ago
And that's problematic. I think Taiwan should be given ultimatum - either drop any business with China or they should get sanctions.
- Infinitesimus 5y ago
  Given an ultimatum by whom? And is the ultimatum issuer OK with the other side of the coin? (That China will likely invade Taiwan the moment there's no global economic incentive not to?) Global politics are always very messy and ultimatums don't help.
- manquer 5y ago
  It is not like they are being kidnapped/brainwashed to work there aka Soviet Union style, or their genocidal war crimes are ignored like the US did with Nazi scientists. Chinese companies are simply offering a good financial package to these people with valuable skill sets. TSMC can pay it's employees to retain they can certainly afford to. Taiwan is not officially exporting talent to China. No country wants their best people to leave, US and countries have used their wealth to attract the best from developing countries and benefited immensely, china is also using a similar strategy

threeseed 5y ago

It doesn't make any business sense at all. Huawei doesn't have much of a future outside of China and the increasing distrust towards CPP doesn't look like changing this anytime soon. So why would you want to help them out instead of trying to win business from US/EU companies who are desperately looking to diversify.

FooBarWidget 5y ago
That is a very western-centric view. Outside of the west and India, Huawei is still going strong. Support for China is quite high in the middle east and in Africa, where many people are skeptical of western narratives about China. Furthermore, Huawei isn't the only Chinese party that needs advanced chips. Other Chinese phone makers such as Oppo and Xiaomi aren't banned. But they have become wary of US dependence and are seeking to decouple their semiconductor supply chain from the US. To them, while Korean suppliers are more risky than Chinese suppliers (which still need time to catch up), it's still less risky than TSMC.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  Exactly. If Korean semi can position itself correctly it has a massive opportunity.
- threeseed 5y ago
  This comment would have been more accurate a year or two ago. But with the Belt and Road Initiative struggling to deliver on many of its infrastructure projects countries are increasingly reluctant to get back into bed with China. More so now that the world has seen what happens if you don't bow down to China's every demand i.e. Australian style economic blackout. My point still stands that if I was a fab right now I would be far more attracted to the growth prospects of US/EU companies than Chinese ones.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    What do you make of RCEP then?