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Quite a contrast in reactions between the guy who made millions of dollars from the OneCoin scam and bought a big fancy house: > After Dr Ruja's non-appearance

Quite a contrast in reactions between the guy who made millions of dollars from the OneCoin scam and bought a big fancy house: > After Dr Ruja's non-appearance in Lisbon, a point came when Igor Alberts, like Jen McAdam, asked to see evidence of the blockchain. He didn't get it, and in December 2017 he quit. > I ask if he felt guilty, for having sold so many people a coin that didn't exist, and for having made so much money in the process. > "I felt responsibility. Not guilt," he replies. "You can never be blamed for believing in something. I had no clue that it could be false. I didn't even know what is a blockchain… What doubt can I have?" Versus the woman who lost a lot of money and convinced her friends/family to also throw away their money: > By contrast, Jen McAdam says she bears a heavy burden of guilt. I ask her how much she earned from selling OneCoin and she says it was €3,000 - €1,800 of which she received in cash, and which she used to buy more OneCoin. The line about “you can never be blamed for believing in something” is of course self-evidently ridiculous and not something Mr. Roberts would pretend to believe in any other context. But “I’m not a bad person, I was a hapless victim like everyone else” has a compelling logic when you’re profiting from a bad system.

dleslie 5y ago
It certainly is a bizarre argument. With absolution of guilt for wrongly held beliefs, one could engage in deplorable actions without a tinge of later guilt. We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause.
- marnett 5y ago
  Yes we do have that responsibility and obligation. Reading his fallacious defense had me immediately thinking of the essay “The Ethics of Belief”[0]. [0] http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause." Can you point me to any source that spells it in legal terms in relation to general public (not specific cases like food inspector)? Like some written law. Also if existed think of what would such law would to to politicians unless they're specifically exempt.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Laws are not always rules for ethical behaviour, let alone the authoritative rules for ethical behaviour.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      that was my point. you can blame the guy all you want but asking why he is not in jail was on a basis of ethics is not the brightest idea
      - dleslie 5y ago
        We're discussing his absence of feeling guilt; not his legal culpability.
        FpUser 5y ago
        True, I misread it. My bad.
danmaz74 5y ago
As the article says, Igor Alberts was already an established multi level marketer making a lot of money with other products when he started with OneCoin. Considering the nature of MLM, I'm not at all surprised about him being rather impervious to feelings of guilt.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Cryptos are MLM's. If you made a really solid crypto today, that was designed to remain solid and relatively flat, it wouldn't be popular - because the whole attraction is the 'easy money' euphoria. No euphoria, no attention. It's why a 'really good Bitcoin' - which tried to price at $1 USD today, and remain at that real valuation and avoid devaluation, would be hard pressed to exist - it wouldn't take hold. Or rather - that kind of financial instrument would have to be sold to banks, not small change MLM people, and banks are really conservative. It may happen at some point.
  - gh55 5y ago
    Tether, the 6th largest cryptocurrency has a market cap of ~$160B, seems pretty "popular" to me. USDC TUSD and BUSD are further popular examples. Cryptocurrencies are not MLMs, you would do yourself a huge favour by learning what they are. In brief, Bitcoin is a scarce asset, and Ethereum is the credit required to run trustless logical conditions relating to a transaction, and also securing assets involved in those conditions.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago
      The vast majority of the Tether market cap is fake money (not actually backed by USD). It will collapse if enough people try to cash out.
      - gh55 5y ago
        As per terms of settlement with NYAG, Tether will be disclosing details of their reserves on a regular basis from now on to NYAG, let's see how fake USDT is - NYAG seem satisfied for now that it is backed by full reserves.
ivanhoe 5y ago
Perhaps she's just a more socially skillful, so she offered a better sounding excuse? That guy has a douche written all over his face, but that doesn't mean others involved are any better...
- nicklecompte 5y ago
  I would argue the person who was extremely successful in MLM is likely very “socially skillful.” It certainly doesn’t meant he’s tactful or decent, and his attitude isn’t uncommon. But I agree you don’t need to say think one person is “inherently” more ethical than the other: all else being equal, the person who got badly burned by MLM is going to be more empathetic than the MLM millionaire.
croes 5y ago
That guy in the article >"I did the calculation how many coins we needed to become the richest person on the planet," Igor says. "I said to Andreea, 'We need to build it up to 100 million coins, because when this coin goes to €100 and we have 100 million, we are richer than Bill Gates.' It's mathematic. It's easy as that." 100€ * 100 million = 10 billion€ Bill Gates net worth 2016 was 76 billion dollars. So much for "It's mathematic. It's easy as that."
valtism 5y ago
Igor Alberts has struck me as about as much as a cartoon villain type as I have ever seen. Obsessed with money and completely lacking in any sense of empathy. His excuses ring very hollow.
forgotpwd16 5y ago
The "didn't know" statement seems like a blatant lie as that guy started DagCoin, an OneCoin's strategy clone, soon after. Especially considering, as he run an MLM which is basically a legal pyramid scheme, he has a good knowledge of this business.

dleslie 5y ago

It certainly is a bizarre argument. With absolution of guilt for wrongly held beliefs, one could engage in deplorable actions without a tinge of later guilt. We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause.

marnett 5y ago
Yes we do have that responsibility and obligation. Reading his fallacious defense had me immediately thinking of the essay “The Ethics of Belief”[0]. [0] http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf
FpUser 5y ago
>"We all have a responsibility to question our beliefs, and what harm our actions cause." Can you point me to any source that spells it in legal terms in relation to general public (not specific cases like food inspector)? Like some written law. Also if existed think of what would such law would to to politicians unless they're specifically exempt.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Laws are not always rules for ethical behaviour, let alone the authoritative rules for ethical behaviour.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    that was my point. you can blame the guy all you want but asking why he is not in jail was on a basis of ethics is not the brightest idea
    - dleslie 5y ago
      We're discussing his absence of feeling guilt; not his legal culpability.
      - FpUser 5y ago
        True, I misread it. My bad.

danmaz74 5y ago

As the article says, Igor Alberts was already an established multi level marketer making a lot of money with other products when he started with OneCoin. Considering the nature of MLM, I'm not at all surprised about him being rather impervious to feelings of guilt.

jollybean 5y ago
Cryptos are MLM's. If you made a really solid crypto today, that was designed to remain solid and relatively flat, it wouldn't be popular - because the whole attraction is the 'easy money' euphoria. No euphoria, no attention. It's why a 'really good Bitcoin' - which tried to price at $1 USD today, and remain at that real valuation and avoid devaluation, would be hard pressed to exist - it wouldn't take hold. Or rather - that kind of financial instrument would have to be sold to banks, not small change MLM people, and banks are really conservative. It may happen at some point.
- gh55 5y ago
  Tether, the 6th largest cryptocurrency has a market cap of ~$160B, seems pretty "popular" to me. USDC TUSD and BUSD are further popular examples. Cryptocurrencies are not MLMs, you would do yourself a huge favour by learning what they are. In brief, Bitcoin is a scarce asset, and Ethereum is the credit required to run trustless logical conditions relating to a transaction, and also securing assets involved in those conditions.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago
    The vast majority of the Tether market cap is fake money (not actually backed by USD). It will collapse if enough people try to cash out.
    - gh55 5y ago
      As per terms of settlement with NYAG, Tether will be disclosing details of their reserves on a regular basis from now on to NYAG, let's see how fake USDT is - NYAG seem satisfied for now that it is backed by full reserves.

ivanhoe 5y ago

Perhaps she's just a more socially skillful, so she offered a better sounding excuse? That guy has a douche written all over his face, but that doesn't mean others involved are any better...

nicklecompte 5y ago
I would argue the person who was extremely successful in MLM is likely very “socially skillful.” It certainly doesn’t meant he’s tactful or decent, and his attitude isn’t uncommon. But I agree you don’t need to say think one person is “inherently” more ethical than the other: all else being equal, the person who got badly burned by MLM is going to be more empathetic than the MLM millionaire.

croes 5y ago

That guy in the article >"I did the calculation how many coins we needed to become the richest person on the planet," Igor says. "I said to Andreea, 'We need to build it up to 100 million coins, because when this coin goes to €100 and we have 100 million, we are richer than Bill Gates.' It's mathematic. It's easy as that." 100€ * 100 million = 10 billion€ Bill Gates net worth 2016 was 76 billion dollars. So much for "It's mathematic. It's easy as that."

valtism 5y ago

Igor Alberts has struck me as about as much as a cartoon villain type as I have ever seen. Obsessed with money and completely lacking in any sense of empathy. His excuses ring very hollow.

forgotpwd16 5y ago

The "didn't know" statement seems like a blatant lie as that guy started DagCoin, an OneCoin's strategy clone, soon after. Especially considering, as he run an MLM which is basically a legal pyramid scheme, he has a good knowledge of this business.