6 ms·

The modern age has possibly removed some carcinogens like inhaling smoke from (bon)fires, mycotoxins from spoilt food, nutritional illiteracy and unsanitary con

The modern age has possibly removed some carcinogens like inhaling smoke from (bon)fires, mycotoxins from spoilt food, nutritional illiteracy and unsanitary conditions. But the modern age has introduced a lot of new ones like tobacco, food additives, sugar, gluten, radiation, asbestos, industrial processing of food, pesticides, sedentary lifestyle.

sokoloff 5y ago
Is tobacco use higher today vs pre-industrial eras? I don’t think of it as a particularly modern introduction to humanity.
- magneticnorth 5y ago
  Tobacco was unknown in Europe until Europeans were introduced to it by native Americans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Wow. That’s mind-blowing. I knew it was a huge economic driver in the early American colonies, but I always imagined it pre-dated [in Europe] the colonization. Thank you for my TIL!
    - throw0101a 5y ago
      Other things that changed post-1492: potatoes, maize (corn), tomatoes, cocoa (chocolate), vanilla are probably most predominant across the Atlantic. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange Bunch of stuff happening in the Pacific as well, e.g., chilli peppers (capsicum): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Distribution_to_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Distribution_to_A... Good book: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World_Columbus_Created https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World...
    - triceratops 5y ago
      The entire Colombian Exchange is eye-opening. Try to imagine Italian food without tomatoes, Indian food without chili peppers, or a Britain with no chips to accompany their fried fish.
refactor_master 5y ago
You lost me at gluten though.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
phonypc 5y ago
Calling a lot of these things carcinogens is a little odd. It's not synonymous with harmful, and even harm isn't obvious for all of these. Food additives and processing in general? Gluten for people who tolerate it?
- fpoling 5y ago
  During the last 120 years wheat was optimized for machines making its gluten content higher that could explain higher gluten intolerance among people presently.
  - gadaprog 5y ago
    Asking out of ignorance here: why is higher gluten wheat more optimal for machines?
    - fpoling 5y ago
      It was not done on purpose. As an unintended consequence of selection for easy to harvest mechanically, easier to bake, better to respond to fertilizers modern wheat varieties contain more specific proteins of gluten type that cause allergic reactions.
    - Woodi 5y ago
      Main role of gluten in bread is to keep gas, usually CO_2 from yeasts, bacteria or baking powder, inside dough - so dought raises and when heated gas expands giving even more volume to (not only) bakery products. Gluten do this by forming gluten net during dought mixing. Or even by mixing flour with water and waiting. So gluten is super good and almoust magical ingradient. Real problem is that Western World started to abuse wheat flour after yeasts were discovered. You know, in older times "white bread" was mainly for rich peoples and poor peoples used flour with more chaff. But in last years chaff costs almoust same as flour :) Celiac disease is only 1-2% population, and non-celiac gluten sensitivity is 5-6%. So that "harmful gluten" is a myth. But if you have some intolerance then gluten is very very toxic. And nothing wrong with skipping it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten Rye flour contains some form of gluten but it do not form gluten net. But still can be toxic for ill peoples. So, using wheat flour/gluten is simplest way to have bread that have nice volume. Other flours are good for pies or require to use cake mold. As for why gluten is better for machines: when dought contain formed gluten net it make it elastic, a bit like gum. So it can be nicely formed. Dought also can be to strong with too much gluten - that require much more force for shaping. Also with good gluten net dought can sustain longer period after forming and before baking, making it less time sensitive - bread do not get flat before there is free place in the stove/oven.
bcatanzaro 5y ago
Gluten is not a carcinogen
devmunchies 5y ago
IMO above all is abundant food (overeating). No food is 100% perfect, so if you eat way too much you are more likely to expose yourself to something toxic or inflammatory. Our bodies aren't designed to be topped-off 3 times a day.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  And with the ideas of 1) less food promoting better cell health (especially factory made food being altered for sales) 2) more exercise ensuring better health, I have a solid belief that past life did well for our health on many fronts. (sure they were lacking antibiotics and a lot of useful medicine)
analog31 5y ago
Gluten is a protein, doesn't that mean it's broken down into amino acids by digestion?
adrianN 5y ago
People have been eating wheat for a long time.

sokoloff 5y ago

Is tobacco use higher today vs pre-industrial eras? I don’t think of it as a particularly modern introduction to humanity.

magneticnorth 5y ago
Tobacco was unknown in Europe until Europeans were introduced to it by native Americans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tobacco
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Wow. That’s mind-blowing. I knew it was a huge economic driver in the early American colonies, but I always imagined it pre-dated [in Europe] the colonization. Thank you for my TIL!
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    Other things that changed post-1492: potatoes, maize (corn), tomatoes, cocoa (chocolate), vanilla are probably most predominant across the Atlantic. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange Bunch of stuff happening in the Pacific as well, e.g., chilli peppers (capsicum): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Distribution_to_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Distribution_to_A... Good book: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World_Columbus_Created https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World...
  - triceratops 5y ago
    The entire Colombian Exchange is eye-opening. Try to imagine Italian food without tomatoes, Indian food without chili peppers, or a Britain with no chips to accompany their fried fish.

refactor_master 5y ago

You lost me at gluten though.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

phonypc 5y ago

Calling a lot of these things carcinogens is a little odd. It's not synonymous with harmful, and even harm isn't obvious for all of these. Food additives and processing in general? Gluten for people who tolerate it?

fpoling 5y ago
During the last 120 years wheat was optimized for machines making its gluten content higher that could explain higher gluten intolerance among people presently.
- gadaprog 5y ago
  Asking out of ignorance here: why is higher gluten wheat more optimal for machines?
  - fpoling 5y ago
    It was not done on purpose. As an unintended consequence of selection for easy to harvest mechanically, easier to bake, better to respond to fertilizers modern wheat varieties contain more specific proteins of gluten type that cause allergic reactions.
  - Woodi 5y ago
    Main role of gluten in bread is to keep gas, usually CO_2 from yeasts, bacteria or baking powder, inside dough - so dought raises and when heated gas expands giving even more volume to (not only) bakery products. Gluten do this by forming gluten net during dought mixing. Or even by mixing flour with water and waiting. So gluten is super good and almoust magical ingradient. Real problem is that Western World started to abuse wheat flour after yeasts were discovered. You know, in older times "white bread" was mainly for rich peoples and poor peoples used flour with more chaff. But in last years chaff costs almoust same as flour :) Celiac disease is only 1-2% population, and non-celiac gluten sensitivity is 5-6%. So that "harmful gluten" is a myth. But if you have some intolerance then gluten is very very toxic. And nothing wrong with skipping it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten Rye flour contains some form of gluten but it do not form gluten net. But still can be toxic for ill peoples. So, using wheat flour/gluten is simplest way to have bread that have nice volume. Other flours are good for pies or require to use cake mold. As for why gluten is better for machines: when dought contain formed gluten net it make it elastic, a bit like gum. So it can be nicely formed. Dought also can be to strong with too much gluten - that require much more force for shaping. Also with good gluten net dought can sustain longer period after forming and before baking, making it less time sensitive - bread do not get flat before there is free place in the stove/oven.

bcatanzaro 5y ago

Gluten is not a carcinogen

devmunchies 5y ago

IMO above all is abundant food (overeating). No food is 100% perfect, so if you eat way too much you are more likely to expose yourself to something toxic or inflammatory. Our bodies aren't designed to be topped-off 3 times a day.

agumonkey 5y ago
And with the ideas of 1) less food promoting better cell health (especially factory made food being altered for sales) 2) more exercise ensuring better health, I have a solid belief that past life did well for our health on many fronts. (sure they were lacking antibiotics and a lot of useful medicine)

analog31 5y ago

Gluten is a protein, doesn't that mean it's broken down into amino acids by digestion?

adrianN 5y ago

People have been eating wheat for a long time.