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> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid conc

> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid concerns that I share as a U.S. citizen concerned about my own privacy from government surveillance. It's appropriate for other countries to share them and to take action. But is it clear that government surveillance by EU countries is more respecting of privacy? It seems to me more like the 5/9/14 Eyes countries are cooperating on just these kinds of intrusions. It isn't clear to me that Facebook data held on European servers will be any more secure from intelligence agencies than on U.S. servers ... including from U.S. agencies.

trasz 5y ago
Would you, as an US citizen, be fine with Facebook transferring all your data to another country with no control over it?
- jmclnx 5y ago
  People using facebook ? They do not care at all about where, how and volume of their data. All they want is "pointy/clicky" access to numb their minds. But storing data outside the US, where would US people get their pics from should facebook fold, I will loose my best and free Backup Servise, the NSA :)
  - etrabroline 5y ago
    I've seen this argument a lot recently. "If we screw other people in a sufficiently convoluted and Rube-Goldbergian enough way then it's almost like we're not screwing over anyone at all!"
- pessimizer 5y ago
  I'd be more comfortable with that than with my own government, that cares what I do and how I vote, having access to facebook's data on me. The scariest part of European data sitting on US servers for Europeans is that the US will have absolutely no regulations keeping them from harvesting, slicing, and packaging every bit of it, and sending it back to Europe. Keeping the data from being shipped out is a good step (hopefully not just focused on Facebook), but reimportation of that data is a laundering process that can render local data protections moot.
wrren 5y ago
The difference is that, as an E.U citizen, the governments and agencies that might access this data, along with the laws that allow for that access, are ultimately accountable to me and my fellow citizens. If my data is transferred to the U.S, I have no ability to influence how it's used at all, I effectively have no rights.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  I’m an average random person. I have zero, even being high paranoia, of some other country surveilling me. But my own country “spying” and surveilling me can be scary. They have a lot of power over me. My one voice isn’t important enough to change any legislation or actions. I doubt yours is either. If something unlucky happens with the surveillance of you in your country, you’re likely out of luck. OTOH, nothing happens if Russia or China surveils me (common boogeymen of the west)
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    > My one voice isn’t important enough to change any legislation or actions. I doubt yours is either. It sounds like you're suggesting human rights (such as the right to privacy) should only be granted to those who really need. Presumably the government would then get to decide who really needs each right, and who isn't important enough to warrant them. Also, I think you're forgetting cases where people have been spied on and ultimately renditioned or murdered by a hostile government while in a third country. Perhaps Assange and Khashoggi aren't perfect examples of that, but there are plenty of examples of Russian and Chinese dissidents who have been killed or threatened while living in the West.
  - ComodoHacker 5y ago
    > I have zero, even being high paranoia, of some other country surveilling me Right until the point of some weird twist in geopolitics and oops, that other country is sharing all it had on you with your home country. It's like Microsoft buying Skype or Facebook buying WhatsApp, but you can't opt out and delete your account.
- reader_mode 5y ago

trasz 5y ago

Would you, as an US citizen, be fine with Facebook transferring all your data to another country with no control over it?

jmclnx 5y ago
People using facebook ? They do not care at all about where, how and volume of their data. All they want is "pointy/clicky" access to numb their minds. But storing data outside the US, where would US people get their pics from should facebook fold, I will loose my best and free Backup Servise, the NSA :)
- etrabroline 5y ago
  I've seen this argument a lot recently. "If we screw other people in a sufficiently convoluted and Rube-Goldbergian enough way then it's almost like we're not screwing over anyone at all!"
pessimizer 5y ago
I'd be more comfortable with that than with my own government, that cares what I do and how I vote, having access to facebook's data on me. The scariest part of European data sitting on US servers for Europeans is that the US will have absolutely no regulations keeping them from harvesting, slicing, and packaging every bit of it, and sending it back to Europe. Keeping the data from being shipped out is a good step (hopefully not just focused on Facebook), but reimportation of that data is a laundering process that can render local data protections moot.

wrren 5y ago

The difference is that, as an E.U citizen, the governments and agencies that might access this data, along with the laws that allow for that access, are ultimately accountable to me and my fellow citizens. If my data is transferred to the U.S, I have no ability to influence how it's used at all, I effectively have no rights.

skinnymuch 5y ago
I’m an average random person. I have zero, even being high paranoia, of some other country surveilling me. But my own country “spying” and surveilling me can be scary. They have a lot of power over me. My one voice isn’t important enough to change any legislation or actions. I doubt yours is either. If something unlucky happens with the surveillance of you in your country, you’re likely out of luck. OTOH, nothing happens if Russia or China surveils me (common boogeymen of the west)
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > My one voice isn’t important enough to change any legislation or actions. I doubt yours is either. It sounds like you're suggesting human rights (such as the right to privacy) should only be granted to those who really need. Presumably the government would then get to decide who really needs each right, and who isn't important enough to warrant them. Also, I think you're forgetting cases where people have been spied on and ultimately renditioned or murdered by a hostile government while in a third country. Perhaps Assange and Khashoggi aren't perfect examples of that, but there are plenty of examples of Russian and Chinese dissidents who have been killed or threatened while living in the West.
- ComodoHacker 5y ago
  > I have zero, even being high paranoia, of some other country surveilling me Right until the point of some weird twist in geopolitics and oops, that other country is sharing all it had on you with your home country. It's like Microsoft buying Skype or Facebook buying WhatsApp, but you can't opt out and delete your account.
reader_mode 5y ago