4 ms·

"exceptions, such as HN", you really don't think there's a hivemind here? Or are you censoring yourself in fear of downvotes, precisely as per OP. There are man

"exceptions, such as HN", you really don't think there's a hivemind here? Or are you censoring yourself in fear of downvotes, precisely as per OP. There are many ways to get to top of HN, few examples: write a rehashed "Kubernetes sucks" article. Write anything about Rust. Write an article criticizing Google. Write an article about how webdev is "wrong" nowadays. Etc. Etc. Etc.

christophilus 5y ago
I see contrarian opinions all the time on HN. This is a fairly libertarian place. There is plenty of groupthink, but there are pro/con opinions of just about every thread posted here.
vagrantJin 5y ago
Nope. I have plenty of downvotes but HN really does have a better incidence of open discussion unless someone is obviously giving an answer that's not thought out or off-topic with unneccesary hostility adding no value to the discussion (like a racial slur) Not to say there isnt a hivemind, there is but conversation rarely disintergrates into mindless name-calling. There is space to disagree. And anecdotally I tend to disagree with a lot of things but I've never been banned/silenced.
- mancerayder 5y ago
  I think the 'hivemind' stuff is a bit overstated, but there are a few areas where, given the topic, you have a high chance of being downvoted even if you provide a rational, non-personal, non-offensive, and careful opinion. This is just what I've witnessed based on the article-type that I click on and observe the commentariat (I'm sure there are many other topics): - If the article is about Bitcoin or crypto and there are a large number of people talking about externalities. If someone says something that's perceived as being not in line, it's getting heavily downvoted. - If the article is about the stock market and there are a large number of people who are recommending index fund dollar-cost averaging. Someone says they picked stocks. Bye-bye, comment font contrast against the background. Greyed. Those grey comments are probably mine in this example. - If the article is about a recent event around a cancellation such as a firing or a conversation around misinformation, anything perceived as questioning that (such as using the word censorship in the comment) has a near-guarantee of downvotes. There is no way to ever come to the defense of someone who said something that has been deemed misinformation, a conspiracy theory, or such, without being associated with the cancelled. It's almost dangerous to even opine at this point if you have feelings around freedom of speech. Note: I'm not talking about the opinion itself, but the right to air it, and coming to defense of that. It's poorly received. - Criticisms of Google, curiously, and I've seen Facebook as well (although I think Facebook fell out of favor in the last few years). I have a theory about many employees coming to the defense of their employer out of loyalty. There are probably many other examples of dangerous topics that provoke the group. I think there is something in people's mind that lets them justify this as follows: "If you question the popular wisdom here, when you have a group saying A, and you say B, you must be a troll out to provoke people."
  - unanswered 5y ago
    > I think there is something in people's mind that lets them justify this as follows: > "If you question the popular wisdom here, when you have a group saying A, and you say B, you must be a troll out to provoke people." The HN moderation team holds to this "principle" and has thereby essentially developed a community around it. That is, this isn't a bug, it's a feature.
    - mancerayder 5y ago
      I don't think the moderation team sought out to create a monoculture- is that what you are suggesting? Downvotes and upvotes for comments for many people are viewed as ways to reward/punish well-constructed/poorly constructed argumentation. I'm sure originally it was a way to conceive of a popularity rating for an article/post. Something with tons of upvotes is popular.
      - unanswered 5y ago
        I think I'm offering this as an alternative to the theory that a monoculture was intentionally created, which is one which the mod team disclaims as I understand it. But if every individual moderation decision is made on the basis of "disagreeing with the 'accepted' answer is trolling" or something like that, and the HN community is [self-]selected on that basis, then I think that's an equally good or better explanation for what I actually observe in comment sections.
        mancerayder 5y ago
        There's something to be said that the monoculture path or end result - if that's what we think is the trend - is more a function more broadly of either technology or some cultural norm. Because it's so incredibly widespread outside of HN, the comment voting behavior here seems to me more like a symptom of a broader problem than a design artifact.
  - kingsuper20 5y ago
    I simply upvote anything that's gray.

christophilus 5y ago

I see contrarian opinions all the time on HN. This is a fairly libertarian place. There is plenty of groupthink, but there are pro/con opinions of just about every thread posted here.

vagrantJin 5y ago

Nope. I have plenty of downvotes but HN really does have a better incidence of open discussion unless someone is obviously giving an answer that's not thought out or off-topic with unneccesary hostility adding no value to the discussion (like a racial slur) Not to say there isnt a hivemind, there is but conversation rarely disintergrates into mindless name-calling. There is space to disagree. And anecdotally I tend to disagree with a lot of things but I've never been banned/silenced.

mancerayder 5y ago
I think the 'hivemind' stuff is a bit overstated, but there are a few areas where, given the topic, you have a high chance of being downvoted even if you provide a rational, non-personal, non-offensive, and careful opinion. This is just what I've witnessed based on the article-type that I click on and observe the commentariat (I'm sure there are many other topics): - If the article is about Bitcoin or crypto and there are a large number of people talking about externalities. If someone says something that's perceived as being not in line, it's getting heavily downvoted. - If the article is about the stock market and there are a large number of people who are recommending index fund dollar-cost averaging. Someone says they picked stocks. Bye-bye, comment font contrast against the background. Greyed. Those grey comments are probably mine in this example. - If the article is about a recent event around a cancellation such as a firing or a conversation around misinformation, anything perceived as questioning that (such as using the word censorship in the comment) has a near-guarantee of downvotes. There is no way to ever come to the defense of someone who said something that has been deemed misinformation, a conspiracy theory, or such, without being associated with the cancelled. It's almost dangerous to even opine at this point if you have feelings around freedom of speech. Note: I'm not talking about the opinion itself, but the right to air it, and coming to defense of that. It's poorly received. - Criticisms of Google, curiously, and I've seen Facebook as well (although I think Facebook fell out of favor in the last few years). I have a theory about many employees coming to the defense of their employer out of loyalty. There are probably many other examples of dangerous topics that provoke the group. I think there is something in people's mind that lets them justify this as follows: "If you question the popular wisdom here, when you have a group saying A, and you say B, you must be a troll out to provoke people."
- unanswered 5y ago
  > I think there is something in people's mind that lets them justify this as follows: > "If you question the popular wisdom here, when you have a group saying A, and you say B, you must be a troll out to provoke people." The HN moderation team holds to this "principle" and has thereby essentially developed a community around it. That is, this isn't a bug, it's a feature.
  - mancerayder 5y ago
    I don't think the moderation team sought out to create a monoculture- is that what you are suggesting? Downvotes and upvotes for comments for many people are viewed as ways to reward/punish well-constructed/poorly constructed argumentation. I'm sure originally it was a way to conceive of a popularity rating for an article/post. Something with tons of upvotes is popular.
    - unanswered 5y ago
      I think I'm offering this as an alternative to the theory that a monoculture was intentionally created, which is one which the mod team disclaims as I understand it. But if every individual moderation decision is made on the basis of "disagreeing with the 'accepted' answer is trolling" or something like that, and the HN community is [self-]selected on that basis, then I think that's an equally good or better explanation for what I actually observe in comment sections.
      - mancerayder 5y ago
        There's something to be said that the monoculture path or end result - if that's what we think is the trend - is more a function more broadly of either technology or some cultural norm. Because it's so incredibly widespread outside of HN, the comment voting behavior here seems to me more like a symptom of a broader problem than a design artifact.
- kingsuper20 5y ago
  I simply upvote anything that's gray.