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> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To th

> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. Just search this - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web They also had the “thousand talents program”. That’s not to say what they did was not impressive, it was. But it’s also a lot of stolen IP.

tfcata 5y ago
That's funny. The thousand talents program is about attracting talents globally. Now who are you to say that those talents are 'yours' not 'theirs'? How about those talents the US attracted before because 'everyone likes the freedom here'? Are those not stolen simply because the US did it under a different political banner?
- chii 5y ago
  > Are those not stolen stealing is involuntary on the part of the entity being stolen from. Are those talents being enslaved to produce the IP for the US?
  - tfcata 5y ago
    Good, are those who joined the thousand talents program the property of the US? If you insist on the 'involuntary' part, well, all of you stole paper from China.
  - insert_coin 5y ago
    > China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. This sounds pretty voluntary.
    - aardvarkr 5y ago
      Ah yes, voluntary theft. That's a thing that we can justify now, huh?
      - tfcata 5y ago
        You need to go back to school and re-take a course on logic.
        aardvarkr 5y ago
        Was technology given or was it stolen? Just because companies are aware the theft is going to happen doesn’t mean it’s morally or ethically something that you can defend. Theft is theft.
justicezyx 5y ago
Put your statement in some minimal check. The IP theft you are referring are just random business patent whose sole purpose is to prevent market competition... If you think a Mars Rover can be copied, well, you better copy one yourself...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bhy 5y ago
Just remember, by your definition, the US "stole" textile technology from the UK. [1] [1] https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...
- aardvarkr 5y ago
  Absolutely they did, but that's like saying your neighbor offended your great great great great great grandfather 143 years ago so you're justified in sleeping with his wife.
  - tfcata 5y ago
    No, it's about your neighbor slept with the wife of your great great great great great grandfather 143 years ago, and he's offspring is biting his teeth, alleging you slept with his wife, coz he probably learnt that someone can sleep with others' wife from his ancestor.
  - pm90 5y ago
    Except that it’s nothing like that at all. Nations are very different entities than individuals. For one thing, they have a longer lifespan. The comparison of a young US stealing IP from an industrialized Britain to a young PRC stealing IP from an industrialized US makes much more sense. The argument being that “stealing IP” is what nations do to industrialize all the time.
soperj 5y ago
If the thousand talents program means this achievement doesn't belong to them, then landing on the moon belongs to the Germans.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- cameldrv 5y ago
  The original claim was "China had to develop all space technology on their own", which is not correct. No one claimed that there wasn't German V-2 technology used in the U.S. space program. Likewise, von Braun acknowledged that their work built on that of Robert Goddard in the U.S.
NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
>IP theft I hope that one day we look back on Imaginary Property and the silly notion that pure information is a scarce resource that can be owned, and realize what a terrible anti-humanist idea it is. It was a concept dreamt up by lawyers primarily for lawyers. Funnily enough, Elon Musk agrees, at least with regard to Tesla imaginary property: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you I'd hope he has the same approach with SpaceX things, but I admit I haven't looked into it as of this comment.
insert_coin 5y ago
Everyone stands in the shoulders of those who came before, and that is a good thing. The US didn't invent physics, didn't invent gunpowder, oil, math, textiles, ROCKETS, etc. But they did "acquire" them all, somehow. > China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. Most IP has been given to them by "businessmen" trying to gain and edge and betting wrong. That is not theft, if anything, is stupidity. To the degree China has stolen trade secrets, do you really think no other country has a corporate spy program? Do you not know who the biggest ip "thief" in the world is?
- aardvarkr 5y ago
  Ah yes, so the chinese were "given" the designs to other military aircrafts which is why their fighter jets look identical to those from the USA and Russia? [0]https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/g23303922/china-copycat-air-force/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/g23303922...
  - monocasa 5y ago
    ...those don't look identical. It lists the J-20 as a knock off of the F-22, and you can even tell from the picture they use that they're radically different airframes.
    - aardvarkr 5y ago
      Please explain the differences that you see because the philosophy looks pretty damn identical. Aside from the obvious addition of forward canards on the J-20, the two aircraft look nearly identical thanks to China’s access to classified F-22 development data. They were caught stealing from Lockheed Martin data on the F-22 program with a successful conviction in 2016
      - monocasa 5y ago
        The wings have a completely different shape, the intakes are completely different, it doesn't have horizontal stabilizers, etc. I could go on.
dang 5y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27161834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27161834. What an utterly wretched flamewar. I'd scold all of you individually, but it would be too much work. Please read the site guidelines and take them in more deeply. There's a lot there: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cycomanic 5y ago
You mean compared to the US to use the largest spy organisation in the world to spy on contracts, technology, business secrets, and personal information of business leaders of other nations to get an edge. It always buffles me how Americans can complain about things that China does (in the business world) while being perfectly fine about what their own government does in the same space. Many actually actively promote it.

tfcata 5y ago

That's funny. The thousand talents program is about attracting talents globally. Now who are you to say that those talents are 'yours' not 'theirs'? How about those talents the US attracted before because 'everyone likes the freedom here'? Are those not stolen simply because the US did it under a different political banner?

chii 5y ago
> Are those not stolen stealing is involuntary on the part of the entity being stolen from. Are those talents being enslaved to produce the IP for the US?
- tfcata 5y ago
  Good, are those who joined the thousand talents program the property of the US? If you insist on the 'involuntary' part, well, all of you stole paper from China.
- insert_coin 5y ago
  > China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. This sounds pretty voluntary.
  - aardvarkr 5y ago
    Ah yes, voluntary theft. That's a thing that we can justify now, huh?
    - tfcata 5y ago
      You need to go back to school and re-take a course on logic.
      - aardvarkr 5y ago
        Was technology given or was it stolen? Just because companies are aware the theft is going to happen doesn’t mean it’s morally or ethically something that you can defend. Theft is theft.

justicezyx 5y ago

Put your statement in some minimal check. The IP theft you are referring are just random business patent whose sole purpose is to prevent market competition... If you think a Mars Rover can be copied, well, you better copy one yourself...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bhy 5y ago

Just remember, by your definition, the US "stole" textile technology from the UK. [1] [1] https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

aardvarkr 5y ago
Absolutely they did, but that's like saying your neighbor offended your great great great great great grandfather 143 years ago so you're justified in sleeping with his wife.
- tfcata 5y ago
  No, it's about your neighbor slept with the wife of your great great great great great grandfather 143 years ago, and he's offspring is biting his teeth, alleging you slept with his wife, coz he probably learnt that someone can sleep with others' wife from his ancestor.
- pm90 5y ago
  Except that it’s nothing like that at all. Nations are very different entities than individuals. For one thing, they have a longer lifespan. The comparison of a young US stealing IP from an industrialized Britain to a young PRC stealing IP from an industrialized US makes much more sense. The argument being that “stealing IP” is what nations do to industrialize all the time.

soperj 5y ago

If the thousand talents program means this achievement doesn't belong to them, then landing on the moon belongs to the Germans.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cameldrv 5y ago
The original claim was "China had to develop all space technology on their own", which is not correct. No one claimed that there wasn't German V-2 technology used in the U.S. space program. Likewise, von Braun acknowledged that their work built on that of Robert Goddard in the U.S.

NaturalPhallacy 5y ago

>IP theft I hope that one day we look back on Imaginary Property and the silly notion that pure information is a scarce resource that can be owned, and realize what a terrible anti-humanist idea it is. It was a concept dreamt up by lawyers primarily for lawyers. Funnily enough, Elon Musk agrees, at least with regard to Tesla imaginary property: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you I'd hope he has the same approach with SpaceX things, but I admit I haven't looked into it as of this comment.

insert_coin 5y ago

Everyone stands in the shoulders of those who came before, and that is a good thing. The US didn't invent physics, didn't invent gunpowder, oil, math, textiles, ROCKETS, etc. But they did "acquire" them all, somehow. > China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. Most IP has been given to them by "businessmen" trying to gain and edge and betting wrong. That is not theft, if anything, is stupidity. To the degree China has stolen trade secrets, do you really think no other country has a corporate spy program? Do you not know who the biggest ip "thief" in the world is?

aardvarkr 5y ago
Ah yes, so the chinese were "given" the designs to other military aircrafts which is why their fighter jets look identical to those from the USA and Russia? [0]https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/g23303922/china-copycat-air-force/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/g23303922...
- monocasa 5y ago
  ...those don't look identical. It lists the J-20 as a knock off of the F-22, and you can even tell from the picture they use that they're radically different airframes.
  - aardvarkr 5y ago
    Please explain the differences that you see because the philosophy looks pretty damn identical. Aside from the obvious addition of forward canards on the J-20, the two aircraft look nearly identical thanks to China’s access to classified F-22 development data. They were caught stealing from Lockheed Martin data on the F-22 program with a successful conviction in 2016
    - monocasa 5y ago
      The wings have a completely different shape, the intakes are completely different, it doesn't have horizontal stabilizers, etc. I could go on.

dang 5y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27161834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27161834. What an utterly wretched flamewar. I'd scold all of you individually, but it would be too much work. Please read the site guidelines and take them in more deeply. There's a lot there: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cycomanic 5y ago

You mean compared to the US to use the largest spy organisation in the world to spy on contracts, technology, business secrets, and personal information of business leaders of other nations to get an edge. It always buffles me how Americans can complain about things that China does (in the business world) while being perfectly fine about what their own government does in the same space. Many actually actively promote it.