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His book was relatively well received. I think the key issue at play here is that he presents the book as a biography, but it's clear both reading the book (and

His book was relatively well received. I think the key issue at play here is that he presents the book as a biography, but it's clear both reading the book (and from the author's own statements) that the literary persona and real person are different. I'm not sure if Apple understood that people would not make this distinction, and a massive group of people would take the writings as his own real opinions and start a massive petition calling for his firing.

philosopher1234 6y ago
You can never know whats in anothers heart. Yet you must try. This fella has given us ample reason, within and outside of the book, to think of him as a misogynist. His self-defenses are lacking wherever I've read them. I don't think this is a case of "the people are stupid". This is a case of justice.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  And because he’s a misogynist he deserves any and all bad things that happen to him? There is a lot of people with stupid ideas in the world. You cannot punish them all just for their ideas.
  - philosopher1234 6y ago
    He doesn't deserve all bad things. But he specifically shouldn't be in a powerful position at Apple. Their firing of him was good (i agree with others that their hiring of him was bad). People's ideas do matter. Ideally misogynists should not be in charge of women.
    - collaborative 6y ago
      Seems the guy isn't really a misogynist and his account of a romance was taken out of context though. Not that I agree with what he says, but there seems to be malice in his portrayal by some journalists (https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who-canceled https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who...) Everyone has a right to work (irrespective of position), to live freely, own property, etc.. Justifying the opposite because of someone's ideas is a very slippery slope. And the fact that politics is a game of perception makes it all the more dangerous. If the mob rules, the true rulers are the people who control the mob (an even smaller amount of people)
      - philosopher1234 6y ago
        The petition included a larger excerpt. I read it and did not think his words were taken out of context. I suggest you read the original work, as it contains other excerpts from other writings of his. Also, I don't believe the fact that he was using this sexist generalization to complement his love interest changes the sexism in the original quote.
  - kemayo 6y ago
    People who make shitty public statements mocking large social groups (in this case women) probably shouldn't be surprised if (more than just) members of those social groups don't really want to work with them. Or that others who don't share those views don't want to be publicly associated with them. In particular, he made a bunch of statements which would make me concerned about him being in any sort of managerial role over women. He doesn't seem to have tried to walk them back or show some sort of change of heart (or "c'mon guys, it was all just a bit"), so I think his almost-coworkers had a point when they started that petition against him.
  - igetspam 6y ago
    Wait wat? You can't punish people people for their behavior? Day that aloud. You sure about this?
- Manuel_D 6y ago
  The claim that the book is part fiction part truth, and these statements are part of the former isn't justification? Having read the book, it doesn't read out of place at all. He makes similar disparaging remarks to other groups. He even calls developers & hackers animals in the title. This is the overall tone the book is written in, he doesn't single out women for a particular rant. I'm sure it seems that way when all you read is a short quote. The notion that this except is a clear indicator that Antonio will inevitably harass, discriminate, or otherwise do something that gives good cause to avoid employing him is a long stretch. The real answer, were I Antonio's boss, is that I'd talk to him and see what his views really are. I'd ask around and see if he's treated women poorly.
pseudalopex 6y ago
He claimed the real person is different. Where is the evidence? Did his literary persona harass Heidi Moore?[1] [1] https://twitter.com/moorehn/status/1392533753768128513 https://twitter.com/moorehn/status/1392533753768128513
- Manuel_D 6y ago
  I'd certainly look at this situation differently if Apple based their firing on claims of harassment. Antonio's email is definitely strongly worded. Though I'd want to look at the series of "unhinged tweets" sent by Moore - my perspective on this is that a lot depends on what Moore sent before this. If it was civil, then Antonio's email goes beyond the pale. If it was comparable, then I see it in a different light if he was met with similar vitriol beforehand.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Contacting her after she blocked him was harassment irrespective of anything she said. Strongly worded puts it mildly. It was strikingly nasty. Like his literary persona. Good luck convincing a jury they're 2 different people.
    - Manuel_D 6y ago
      It likely won't even be charged, let alone go to a jury, since you have a vastly different understanding of what harassment is than exists in reality. Though if he actually does get convicted, feel free to message me and I'll admit I was wrong.
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        I didn't say criminal harassment. And the jury would be for the discrimination suit against Apple any woman he reviewed negatively might bring.
- tzs 6y ago
  Your link doesn't work for most people. Moore's tweets are only visible to approved followers.
Aeolun 6y ago
I mean, have they looked at the current social justice landscape before deciding that nobody would care? They must have had a lot riding on just not understanding exactly what would happen.

philosopher1234 6y ago

You can never know whats in anothers heart. Yet you must try. This fella has given us ample reason, within and outside of the book, to think of him as a misogynist. His self-defenses are lacking wherever I've read them. I don't think this is a case of "the people are stupid". This is a case of justice.

Aeolun 6y ago
And because he’s a misogynist he deserves any and all bad things that happen to him? There is a lot of people with stupid ideas in the world. You cannot punish them all just for their ideas.
- philosopher1234 6y ago
  He doesn't deserve all bad things. But he specifically shouldn't be in a powerful position at Apple. Their firing of him was good (i agree with others that their hiring of him was bad). People's ideas do matter. Ideally misogynists should not be in charge of women.
  - collaborative 6y ago
    Seems the guy isn't really a misogynist and his account of a romance was taken out of context though. Not that I agree with what he says, but there seems to be malice in his portrayal by some journalists (https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who-canceled https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who...) Everyone has a right to work (irrespective of position), to live freely, own property, etc.. Justifying the opposite because of someone's ideas is a very slippery slope. And the fact that politics is a game of perception makes it all the more dangerous. If the mob rules, the true rulers are the people who control the mob (an even smaller amount of people)
    - philosopher1234 6y ago
      The petition included a larger excerpt. I read it and did not think his words were taken out of context. I suggest you read the original work, as it contains other excerpts from other writings of his. Also, I don't believe the fact that he was using this sexist generalization to complement his love interest changes the sexism in the original quote.
- kemayo 6y ago
  People who make shitty public statements mocking large social groups (in this case women) probably shouldn't be surprised if (more than just) members of those social groups don't really want to work with them. Or that others who don't share those views don't want to be publicly associated with them. In particular, he made a bunch of statements which would make me concerned about him being in any sort of managerial role over women. He doesn't seem to have tried to walk them back or show some sort of change of heart (or "c'mon guys, it was all just a bit"), so I think his almost-coworkers had a point when they started that petition against him.
- igetspam 6y ago
  Wait wat? You can't punish people people for their behavior? Day that aloud. You sure about this?
Manuel_D 6y ago
The claim that the book is part fiction part truth, and these statements are part of the former isn't justification? Having read the book, it doesn't read out of place at all. He makes similar disparaging remarks to other groups. He even calls developers & hackers animals in the title. This is the overall tone the book is written in, he doesn't single out women for a particular rant. I'm sure it seems that way when all you read is a short quote. The notion that this except is a clear indicator that Antonio will inevitably harass, discriminate, or otherwise do something that gives good cause to avoid employing him is a long stretch. The real answer, were I Antonio's boss, is that I'd talk to him and see what his views really are. I'd ask around and see if he's treated women poorly.

pseudalopex 6y ago

He claimed the real person is different. Where is the evidence? Did his literary persona harass Heidi Moore?[1] [1] https://twitter.com/moorehn/status/1392533753768128513 https://twitter.com/moorehn/status/1392533753768128513

Manuel_D 6y ago
I'd certainly look at this situation differently if Apple based their firing on claims of harassment. Antonio's email is definitely strongly worded. Though I'd want to look at the series of "unhinged tweets" sent by Moore - my perspective on this is that a lot depends on what Moore sent before this. If it was civil, then Antonio's email goes beyond the pale. If it was comparable, then I see it in a different light if he was met with similar vitriol beforehand.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Contacting her after she blocked him was harassment irrespective of anything she said. Strongly worded puts it mildly. It was strikingly nasty. Like his literary persona. Good luck convincing a jury they're 2 different people.
  - Manuel_D 6y ago
    It likely won't even be charged, let alone go to a jury, since you have a vastly different understanding of what harassment is than exists in reality. Though if he actually does get convicted, feel free to message me and I'll admit I was wrong.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      I didn't say criminal harassment. And the jury would be for the discrimination suit against Apple any woman he reviewed negatively might bring.
tzs 6y ago
Your link doesn't work for most people. Moore's tweets are only visible to approved followers.

Aeolun 6y ago

I mean, have they looked at the current social justice landscape before deciding that nobody would care? They must have had a lot riding on just not understanding exactly what would happen.