4 ms·

Let’s be real. There was a trump Russia thing. It’s beyond sketchy to have your campaign manager and his aid literally provide internal polling data to Russian

by mint2 5y ago

Let’s be real. There was a trump Russia thing. It’s beyond sketchy to have your campaign manager and his aid literally provide internal polling data to Russian intelligence. And Russia was undeniably trying to help trump win, and trump was undeniably pleased that was happening. I don’t get why people deny this happened.

tored 5y ago
Can you provide a source on that claim of polling data to Russian intelligence?
- nawgz 5y ago
  I googled "polling data to Russian intelligence" https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia-campaigns-konstantin-kilimnik-d2fdefdb37077e28eba135e21fce6ebf https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia...
  - tored 5y ago
    Thanks. Answered this here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156995
- tw04 5y ago
  His own lawyers admitted to it in documents they tried (and failed) to redact: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/manafort-says-he-didn-t-lie-federal-investigators-n956276 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/manafort... Because apparently we're going to pretend that NBCnews is somehow not a reputable news source, the link to the actual document so we can stop trying to change the subject: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-20190108-Dc.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-... Page 6, copy and paste the blacked out text: >The same is true with regard to the Government’s allegation that Mr. Manafort lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign. (See Doc. 460 at 6). The simple fact that Mr. Manafort could not recall, or incorrectly recalled, specific events from his past dealings with Mr. Kilimnik – but often (after being shown or told about relevant documents or other evidence) corrected himself or clarified his responses – does not support a determination that he intentionally lied.
  - the_optimist 5y ago
    This page is loaded with repeated headline statements but no substance. A collaborator to many of the NBC stories on the page you’ve provided is Ken Dilanian, a reported fired from the LA Times for his “collaborative relationship with the CIA.” I surmise this is consistent with the rest of the entire episode from LeavesTea onward.
    - tw04 5y ago
      I'm not sure I follow your point, nothing you've stated contradicts the fact that his own lawyers admitted to him supplying Russians with polling data. You can't refute the facts so refute the site to try to distract the discussion? It is LITERALLY in the redacted court documents: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-20190108-Dc.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-... If you have an issue with that site you can go to literally dozens of others, how about the BBC? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46804127 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46804127
      - tored 5y ago
        What do you think the punishment should be for giving mostly outdated, partially public and top line polling data (Trump 50% vs Clinton 48%) to Russians (as in citizens)?
        tw04 5y ago
        I would need you to go back and edit your posts insinuating there was no proof before I have any interest in continuing the conversation. I get the impression you're more interested in trolling than having a conversation based in facts.
        tored 5y ago
        Please point me to when I said there was no proof for Manafort giving Kilimnik polling data. (I didn't, what I was skeptic about was that Manafort gave Russian Intelligence sensitive campaign data and that there was connection from the Trump campaign to Russian Intelligence). Now, please answer my question.
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
There was a lot of Russian collusion going into 2016, just not from the people you expect it. For example, Fusion GPS paying Veselnitskaya, using her to lobby _against_ the magnitsky act, and also supplying the infamous "dossier" which was paid for by the DNC. The whole thing is a cobweb or power players who use connections and ignorant US media to parrot back narratives, divide events into political tribes, and isolate people from the truth. It's a dumpster fire where people end up believing things that are untrue and they don't even know why. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-mueller-and-horowitz-reveal-fusion-gps-role-in-both-trump-tower-meetings https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-mueller-and...
the_optimist 5y ago
If you look at source documents, the “provided material” was polling data of the kind one could find on the news. Thus, this is the thinnest conceivable gruel for spying on a campaign with FISA warrants, framing an incoming national security advisor, multiple impeachment efforts, four years of media hysteria deeply interned with leaks and special council, and countless lives ruined. In the course of history, there are simply no excuses for this kind of casual slander, excepting smack dab in the middle of an outrageously powerful police-bureaucratic state.

by mint2 5y ago

tored 5y ago

Can you provide a source on that claim of polling data to Russian intelligence?

nawgz 5y ago
I googled "polling data to Russian intelligence" https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia-campaigns-konstantin-kilimnik-d2fdefdb37077e28eba135e21fce6ebf https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia...
- tored 5y ago
  Thanks. Answered this here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156995
tw04 5y ago
His own lawyers admitted to it in documents they tried (and failed) to redact: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/manafort-says-he-didn-t-lie-federal-investigators-n956276 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/manafort... Because apparently we're going to pretend that NBCnews is somehow not a reputable news source, the link to the actual document so we can stop trying to change the subject: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-20190108-Dc.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-... Page 6, copy and paste the blacked out text: >The same is true with regard to the Government’s allegation that Mr. Manafort lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign. (See Doc. 460 at 6). The simple fact that Mr. Manafort could not recall, or incorrectly recalled, specific events from his past dealings with Mr. Kilimnik – but often (after being shown or told about relevant documents or other evidence) corrected himself or clarified his responses – does not support a determination that he intentionally lied.
- the_optimist 5y ago
  This page is loaded with repeated headline statements but no substance. A collaborator to many of the NBC stories on the page you’ve provided is Ken Dilanian, a reported fired from the LA Times for his “collaborative relationship with the CIA.” I surmise this is consistent with the rest of the entire episode from LeavesTea onward.
  - tw04 5y ago
    I'm not sure I follow your point, nothing you've stated contradicts the fact that his own lawyers admitted to him supplying Russians with polling data. You can't refute the facts so refute the site to try to distract the discussion? It is LITERALLY in the redacted court documents: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-20190108-Dc.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677512/Manafort-... If you have an issue with that site you can go to literally dozens of others, how about the BBC? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46804127 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46804127
    - tored 5y ago
      What do you think the punishment should be for giving mostly outdated, partially public and top line polling data (Trump 50% vs Clinton 48%) to Russians (as in citizens)?
      - tw04 5y ago
        I would need you to go back and edit your posts insinuating there was no proof before I have any interest in continuing the conversation. I get the impression you're more interested in trolling than having a conversation based in facts.
        tored 5y ago
        Please point me to when I said there was no proof for Manafort giving Kilimnik polling data. (I didn't, what I was skeptic about was that Manafort gave Russian Intelligence sensitive campaign data and that there was connection from the Trump campaign to Russian Intelligence). Now, please answer my question.

ed25519FUUU 5y ago

There was a lot of Russian collusion going into 2016, just not from the people you expect it. For example, Fusion GPS paying Veselnitskaya, using her to lobby _against_ the magnitsky act, and also supplying the infamous "dossier" which was paid for by the DNC. The whole thing is a cobweb or power players who use connections and ignorant US media to parrot back narratives, divide events into political tribes, and isolate people from the truth. It's a dumpster fire where people end up believing things that are untrue and they don't even know why. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-mueller-and-horowitz-reveal-fusion-gps-role-in-both-trump-tower-meetings https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-mueller-and...

the_optimist 5y ago

If you look at source documents, the “provided material” was polling data of the kind one could find on the news. Thus, this is the thinnest conceivable gruel for spying on a campaign with FISA warrants, framing an incoming national security advisor, multiple impeachment efforts, four years of media hysteria deeply interned with leaks and special council, and countless lives ruined. In the course of history, there are simply no excuses for this kind of casual slander, excepting smack dab in the middle of an outrageously powerful police-bureaucratic state.