10 ms·

System76 Launch Keyboard

37ef_ced3 5y ago
I buy computers from System76 and they are good. Highly recommended But if it's not a wireless ergonomic keyboard, I am not interested The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Wireless keyboard, despite its flaws, is the healthiest and most comfortable keyboard I've ever used. Started using it four years ago and I'll never go back Ideal if you edit in Vim: https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-Keyboard/dp/B00CYX54C0 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-...
- millerm 5y ago
  That thing (the System76 keyboard) is fugly. :-) I did just by a fun clicky, expensive keyboard, and not so expensive mouse for home. I purposely didn't buy wireless as I find no point in wireless when these things are on my desk 100% of the time. I just replaced both an apple wireless keyboard, and wireless magic mouse, with a wired Razor Blackwidow and a wired Logitech G403. Not to mention I'm sure someone can snoop on and log wireless keyboards. But, I'm tired of dealing with charging things, or replacing batteries.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I like my wireless keyboard for some applications. Most of the time my keyboard is on my desk, but at my music workstation I instead of midi controllers in front of me, but sometimes I need to grab a keyboard/mouse for control. Not having to deal with wires there is great. I like my wireless mouse too: it moves, and my desk is too crowded to find a good spot for the cord to not get in the way. (with working from home I have a bunch of work related test fixtures taking up space.) Those who have a clean desk won't have this problem - but I've never been able to pull that off personally.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  > But if it's not a wireless, split, ergonomic keyboard, I am not interested Not wireless, but I've recnetly gotten a ZSA Moonlander [1] keyboard and I'm in love. It's wonderful. Like the System76 one, it's open source and you store the keyboard config on-device. [1] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/
  - konart 5y ago
    Ergodox and the like have one big problem: hard or impossible to use if you need a layout for a language that has more than 26 characters.
    - eigenspace 5y ago
      I disagree. This keyboard has programmable layers that can be switched between quite easily. For instance, I have a whole layer for greek characters because I use them a lot whilst programming. Developing muscle memory for the layers takes time, but it's not so bad.
      - konart 5y ago
        What does this have to do with the fact that I need all of my russian alphabet when I type in russian? The problem is that the default russian qwerty (or rather йцукен) simply won't fit. You will have to bind additional characters to weird places, which will be messing with your muscle memory or use layers, as you've said. Which is super annoying. Imagine you have to switch to a different layer when you need to type 'z', 'h', 's' and 'p' for example.
        eigenspace 5y ago
        The Moonlander has 70 keys on it. If you don't want to split up your alphabet, just assign your whole alphabet to the first layer and move things like punctuation or numbers to the next layer There's plenty of room on this keyboard for bigger alphabets.
        konart 5y ago
        Again - the issue is that this breaks default layout. Obviously any keyboard with at least 33 keys will be enough for me to just place the alphabet on them. The problems is that this breaks everything. Anyhow - after a bunch of keyboards all I can say is that 60-65% ones are the best. I get everything I need - not more, no less.
- blumomo 5y ago
  Happy System76 Laptop user here, too! However nothing goes over the programmable, ergonomic split keyboard „Kinesis Advantage 2LF“ ;-) https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
  - hprotagonist 5y ago
    ergodox and moonlander come immediately to mind as things i'd use over an advantage2, for native QMK support if nothing else.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    In the world of mechanical keyboards I'd consider a kinesis to be mid range. Definitely a great keyboard, not terribly different from a Maltron or other ergo boards.
    - eigenspace 5y ago
      As a happy user of a Moonlander, I think the Kinesis has some nice advantages, namely the fact that the keys on each split are in a recessed well. I think that might have some ergonomic advantages, but I haven't tried one yet so I'm not sure.
      - aseipp 5y ago
        I am a new Moonlander user (for ~4 months now) who switched from a Kinesis1/2 after over 10 years of use. The well feels nice for e.g. the "d" column to be deeper than "f", so your longer index finger rests a little more naturally. I don't think it's a significant world-changing advantage, just one of those nice minor design touches. Honestly the bigger problem was that after 10 years of use, your hand position with any keyboard will cause you to hold it poorly at first with a new one, if the layout is massively different. The first 48 hours with the Moonlander were rough until I found the proper spacing and setup for them...
        eigenspace 5y ago
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  > Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Wireless keyboard Have you tried the Surface Ergonomic KB? All the goodness of the sculpt (even better IMHO) with a full layout. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-keyboard/90pnc9ljwpx9 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-keyboard...
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    I don't think the Surface Ergonomic KB comes with an elevated palm rest (which I like in the Sculpt).
  - 37ef_ced3 5y ago
    I use the Sculpt on my lap, never on a desk The Surface Ergo is too wide. The Sculpt is more symmetrical and narrow, by omitting the number pad, etc., on the right-hand side
- officeplant 5y ago
  I like my sculpt I have at work. The casing is starting to crack after a year for some reason, but everything is functioning fine.
- anotherevan 5y ago
  I love the MS Nat Ergo 4000 and thought the Sculpt would be a good successor, but find I really dislike it. I find the short key travel hard to adjust to (lots of typos), and the mushy ESC key was not conducive to Vim editing. (P.S. I've a 10 finger touch typist. Learned in school in the '80s on manual typewriters.) Funny how our experiences are so disparate.
  - 37ef_ced3 5y ago
    The tiny escape key is a defect of the Sculpt keyboard But I have caps lock mapped to ctrl (I hit it with my pinkie) and the windows key mapped to escape (I hit it with my thumb) Almost all hardcore Vim users map ctrl and escape. It's standard practice Also, I use the Sculpt on my lap, never on a desk The MS Nat Ergo 4000 is too wide and asymmetrical for my lap. Same is true of the MS Surface Ergo. The Sculpt is more symmetrical and narrow, by omitting the number pad, etc., on the right-hand side
threatofrain 5y ago
$285! Wow...
- radicaldreamer 5y ago
  Still cheaper than most Topre boards...
- coldtea 5y ago
  In the mechanical keyboard market, this price is not very special, even for keyboards with much less functionality (e.g. no USB 3.2 hub) and made of plastic. Heck, there are keycapp sets that sell for $100-$200 alone...
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    Mmm but then I compare it to this. https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-gmmk-pro-75-barebone-white-reservation https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-gmmk-pro-75-b...
    - Macha 5y ago
      > SWITCHES > Not Included Not really comparing like for like here, you're comparing a base to build your own keyboard with a full keyboard at the listed price points.
    - coldtea 5y ago
      That's just the base plate alone for $100. No keycaps, no usb-c 3.2 hub, no accessories, and so on.
      - puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
        100$ is just the reservation price, which is deducted from the actual price at the time of ordering (which is $169)
- lsllc 5y ago
  If you're using it on a Mac, then it'll save you $40 because it's got 2x USB-A ports! (Apple charge $19 for a USB-C to A).
tw04 5y ago
Man if System76 is listening, or any keyboard manufacturer for that matter: please make a mechanical version of the ms ergonomic keyboard. All the other "ergonomics" seem to be trying too hard and have layouts that are so different from a standard keyboard as to be annoying. The MS one was perfect in every way, just needs mechanical keys.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  > ms ergonomic keyboard Hopefully you mean the Natural Ergonomic KB 4000, because every incarnation since has borked the key layouts in some significant way. I have a collection of those bad-boys, so hopefully I'll never run out, cuz they're getting harder to find.
  - tw04 5y ago
    Definitely the KB 4000. I have a collection as well and still use them on occasion. I even researched and found one guy who converted his to mechanical but the amount of effort and time is well outside of what I could dedicate to a project like that.
  - bozzcl 5y ago
    Only keyboard I’ve ever bought more than one of.
  - anotherevan 5y ago
    One of mine lasted so long the little nubs on the J and F keys had worn away. I had to scar them with an old soldering iron to I could position my hands by touch again.
- manquer 5y ago
  Perhaps MS has some patents/IP protecting their design ? It may be why no one is doing it? . Even if the patents are questionable , small OEMs would not want to risk facing MS legal.
  - morsch 5y ago
handelaar 5y ago
In what sense am I "configuring" this when the only thing I can change on it is the switch feel?
- coldtea 5y ago
  It's not about ordering different configurations. It's about the keyboard being configurable, or as they say: "Remap keys, swap keycaps, and configure multiple layers to your liking. (...) Seamlessly adjust the layout with the Keyboard Configurator application. Because changes are saved to the keyboard’s firmware, you can use your custom layout at any workstation. (...) Included key puller makes it easy to pop and place keys where you want them. Extra keycaps are provided in different sizes, contours, and red and blue accent colors. (...) Use four layers for personalized application shortcuts, adjusting hardware functions, non-QWERTY layouts, and more."
- porcc 5y ago
  QMK-compatibility means that you can flash the keyboard with your own firmware, written in C. Quite a lot of potential for extension, macros, and odd bits and bobs of USB-compatible things like midi, steno protocols, and mouse movement.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  That's just their store template I assume; all of the PCs they sell have a lot more than just one option.
zzo38computer 5y ago
Is good you can customize, open-source, N-key rollover, and some other things, but it lacks some keys such as a number pad and some others, and doesn't seems to have PS/2 (I don't like USB), so I think that I will keep the keyboard that I currently have. (I also don't need full lighting like that)
- loloquwowndueo 5y ago
  Why don’t you like USB ?
  - macleginn 5y ago
    USB controllers are usually unable to provide more than 6-key rollover. Some keyboards offer two parallel cables for 12-key RO, but for real NKRO you basically need PS/2.
    - kstrauser 5y ago
      I wouldn't say "usually" anymore. I was just able to mash 18 keys at once on my non-exotic keyboard and have them independently register. NKRO over USB isn't that rare now.
    - open-paren 5y ago
      Maybe that was the case in the past, but I don't think that's true anymore. Using this[0] page, it will register as many keys as I can mash without triggering a global hotkey. [0]: http://gadzikowski.com/nkeyrollover.html http://gadzikowski.com/nkeyrollover.html
  - abfan1127 5y ago
    I googled ps2 vs usb and found this - https://www.how2shout.com/technology/usb-vs-ps2-the-battle-between-the-old-and-the-new-which-is-better-lets-find-out.html https://www.how2shout.com/technology/usb-vs-ps2-the-battle-b...
  - fsflover 5y ago
    On Qubes OS, USB devices are isolated from the system to prevent BadUSB attacks. This makes using a USB keyboard quite complicated and less secure: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/device-handling-security/#usb-security https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/device-handling-security/#usb-s....
CarelessExpert 5y ago
Kinda curious how this compares to something like the Drop Alt, which seems to have the same feature set for $100 less: https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard
- jefurii 5y ago
  For one, with System76 I can at least look at the damn thing without having to create a friggin' account.
  - _jal 5y ago
    Try https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard?mode=guest_open https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard?mode=guest... It is stupid legacy from before they pivoted, not sure why they still do that.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  This website won't even let me look at a high-res photo of the keyboard or see specs without signing up. What is wrong with these people?
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  The Alt is essentially dead for this price point, not that is was ever particularly good. The stabilizers in particular is something Drop never got right. The GMMK Pro is the current disruptive force on the market, alongside boards that are entering semi-permanent stock like the Novelkeys NK65 or the KBDfans KBD67 Lite. At this price point, and in a few other ways, this board from System76 is a joke. All the modifier keys are non-standard size (more in the pool of exotic), probably avoid putting any stabilizers on the thing. And that weird indent on the Tab key. This smells like designing the keyboard according to Keycap availability. Pretty sure you can find those exact caps on Aliexpress for 40-50 dollars. The keycap profile is a super weird choice. I love DSA and XDA (this is XDA), but they're not exactly a good experience out of the box for someone who has been working on Cherry or OEM. If you want a board with this layout, check out the GMMK Pro or ID80. The ID80 in particular requires that you buy parts yourself, but that's worth it just for the keycap availability. Both also support QMK.
chrisBob 5y ago
Yeah for split spacebars on a programmable keyboard! I currently use and love a Kinesis Freestyle Pro, and would consider this for my next keyboard. My favorite feature of the Kinesis board is that it is programmable and has a split spacebar. The split/ergo shape is okay, but I don't think I will ever get another keyboard that doesn't at least have a split spacebar and a way to program it. With half of my spacebar acting as fn and then arrows, backspace, delete and escape on the fn layer move my hands around MUCH less than on a normal keyboard.
hysan 5y ago
Not a fan of the shortened right Shift key. I’ve always thought of this as an over optimization to save space. Second thought - at this price point, I would expect this to be a split keyboard. Will this be in a future iteration?
colllectorof 5y ago
$285.00? Too expensive. It's not even a matter of whether I can afford something of this sort. I simply feel awful when I overpay for something that seems like a hipster product. Cut out the USB hub and seemingly useless RGB LEDs, bring down the price a bit and maybe I'll bite. I do appreciate features like N-key rollower and programmable firmware, as well as being assembled in US. Ambivalent about aluminum chassis. (I.e don't mind it, but wouldn't mind good plastic either.)
- dathinab 5y ago
  Smallish non Chinese or Taiwanese company producing a mechanical keyboard with replaceable keys, QMK firmware, LED's and you are most times at a price around this. And for people which like a clean setup the building hub is grate. Just kinda pointless in case you have a laptop and a usb dock. EDIT: Also just guessing but no LED and no HUB would probably reduce the price by at most 50$. Most cost don't come from parts but producing in small amounts, development etc.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Not sure about that. I’ve got a Durgod K320 TKL cherry MX red silent switches and bought mac keytops for it and it’s half that price in the US. Also doesn’t have some fucked up weird keyboard layout that makes it impossible to use another keyboard for 3 months if you have to change.
    - errantspark 5y ago
      I believe that's not "non chinese/taiwanese"?
      - hughrr 5y ago
        Sorry missed that. Had a long day :)
  - bluGill 5y ago
    The LEDs are less than a buck each in any form of quantity. A USB hub chip is cheap too, but I don't know what the right search term is. If it lowered the price by $50, it is only if you have a time machine and the ability to get them to not design it with that in the first place. (high speed USB does have some interesting requirements on board layouts - but I'm not enough off an engineer to know how bad those are in practice) In reality doing a new layout so there is no hub will cost more than just selling these and letting people configure the LEDs off.
zamalek 5y ago
I'm a Kailh Box Jade user, I love them to bits, but I understand that I am extremely niche. It's an interesting choice to sell them in prebuilts to a wide audience. There's also tons of rattle in both sound tests, possibly stabilizers or the springs. I strongly recommend lubing the springs if you do pick one of these up (4-5 hours of work). Lubing the Jade clickbar also changes the sounds from a "thack" to a "thock," without changing the tactile profile much (unlike regular tactile switches). Something to consider if you find that the Jade pitch is unpleasant.
- amatecha 5y ago
  I like Jade and Navy .. so nice! I'd love to build a keyboard using either of those sometime. But I already have too many keyboards... (not that that's ever stopped me yet haha)
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  Lubing box switches on the mechanism is not recommended. Just the spring. Box switches are designed to be self-cleaning. If you want a thock in a box switch, get Royals. If you want that effort of lubing to go up to days, you could use multiple layers of RO-59. That's a bonding lubricant, so the effect will not even close to be as pronounced, but you can't get it off easily.
dathinab 5y ago
Hm, I guess another option. I'm want to buy a mechanikal keyboard with QMK firmware (one which supports Tab Dance). I'm just not sure which. This one doesn't look bad, but then I'm more interested into something with a slightly more ergonomic key arrangement. I also thought about the Moonlander, but it's even more pricey then this one.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  The sad reality currently is that if you want ergonomic design, mechanical switches, and customizable open source firmware, you're going to have to pay for it. The Moonlander is basically mid-tier in terms of price for a ergonomic mechanical keyboard. For what it's worth I'm very happy with my Moonlander, but I would have had a hard time convincing myself to bite the bullet and pay for the keyboard myself if my employer hadn't offered to cover the bill. I'm glad I did though, it made a big difference for my achey, unhappy hands.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Durgod k320 is dirt cheap and supports QMK firmware. I haven’t tried the firmware myself as the default is fine. I don’t customise my stuff heavily so I don’t have problems using other peoples computers occasionally.
  - dathinab 5y ago
    > I don’t have problems using other peoples computers occasionally. I know what you mean ;=) But I really really want tab dance functionality, switched esc-caps and a few other things. And this things being configured in you keyboard instead of the OS make it just a lot less annoying.
waffenklang 5y ago
No ISO, no money.
- hughrr 5y ago
  This. That tiny little enter key is laughable once you’ve got used to iso layouts.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  And I'm the opposite, ISO layouts suck for me.
  - waffenklang 5y ago
    And thats fine for you! But as a keyboard maker System76 could have make it optional as a lot of other keyboard maker are able to do.
neonological 5y ago
I would pay $500 for this keyboard if I can put it in the dishwasher. Seriously that's my dream keyboard. Mechanical, high quality and washable in the dishwasher or just washable like a dish.
- procinct 5y ago
  Probably doesn’t quite solve your problem exactly but these days you can get hotswappable keyboards that allow you to take the full switch off without needing to get your soldering iron out. You won’t be able to literally wash it but it should make cleaning a fair bit easier I imagine.
  - neonological 5y ago
    I have one. Not only that, the switches are external to the keyboard so nothing for the debris to fall into. Still. You know how many keys the keyboard has? Come on man. I want to put the keyboard in the dishwasher and call it a day. Honestly, I'd like my laptop to be dish washable too but that might be a little too farfetched.
- dddw 5y ago
  There are dishwashable keyboards, but in combination with mechanical not
frompdx 5y ago
This looks very nice. Most importantly, the profile isn't too high. I have a Keychron K6 and Vortexgear Pok3r. The Pok3r is about right even though it is a little taller than this keyboard. The K6 is far too tall to be comfortable. I think the price isn't for a programmable keyboard with swappable switches. PBT keycaps are also much better than ABS, another fault of the K6. These days I'm typing on a Kinesis Advantage2 for ergonomic reasons and I just can't see myself going back to a 60% or 65% keyboard. I hope System76 considers making an ergo with the features of this board in the future.
cassepipe 5y ago
Trying to take advantage of of the wisdom of all of you keyboards nerds out here. Are you aware of any good/wonderful keyboard replacement for a laptop? I am assuming that they are standard for a given laptop size which might be totally wrong. Anyways if any such thing existed, I'd love to upgrade.
rekabis 5y ago
No hardware Dvorak option? For shame. There are dozens of us! Dozens!

I buy computers from System76 and they are good. Highly recommended But if it's not a wireless ergonomic keyboard, I am not interested The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Wireless keyboard, despite its flaws, is the healthiest and most comfortable keyboard I've ever used. Started using it four years ago and I'll never go back Ideal if you edit in Vim: https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-Keyboard/dp/B00CYX54C0 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-...

millerm 5y ago
That thing (the System76 keyboard) is fugly. :-) I did just by a fun clicky, expensive keyboard, and not so expensive mouse for home. I purposely didn't buy wireless as I find no point in wireless when these things are on my desk 100% of the time. I just replaced both an apple wireless keyboard, and wireless magic mouse, with a wired Razor Blackwidow and a wired Logitech G403. Not to mention I'm sure someone can snoop on and log wireless keyboards. But, I'm tired of dealing with charging things, or replacing batteries.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I like my wireless keyboard for some applications. Most of the time my keyboard is on my desk, but at my music workstation I instead of midi controllers in front of me, but sometimes I need to grab a keyboard/mouse for control. Not having to deal with wires there is great. I like my wireless mouse too: it moves, and my desk is too crowded to find a good spot for the cord to not get in the way. (with working from home I have a bunch of work related test fixtures taking up space.) Those who have a clean desk won't have this problem - but I've never been able to pull that off personally.
eigenspace 5y ago
> But if it's not a wireless, split, ergonomic keyboard, I am not interested Not wireless, but I've recnetly gotten a ZSA Moonlander [1] keyboard and I'm in love. It's wonderful. Like the System76 one, it's open source and you store the keyboard config on-device. [1] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/
- konart 5y ago
  Ergodox and the like have one big problem: hard or impossible to use if you need a layout for a language that has more than 26 characters.
  - eigenspace 5y ago
    I disagree. This keyboard has programmable layers that can be switched between quite easily. For instance, I have a whole layer for greek characters because I use them a lot whilst programming. Developing muscle memory for the layers takes time, but it's not so bad.
    - konart 5y ago
      What does this have to do with the fact that I need all of my russian alphabet when I type in russian? The problem is that the default russian qwerty (or rather йцукен) simply won't fit. You will have to bind additional characters to weird places, which will be messing with your muscle memory or use layers, as you've said. Which is super annoying. Imagine you have to switch to a different layer when you need to type 'z', 'h', 's' and 'p' for example.
      - eigenspace 5y ago
        The Moonlander has 70 keys on it. If you don't want to split up your alphabet, just assign your whole alphabet to the first layer and move things like punctuation or numbers to the next layer There's plenty of room on this keyboard for bigger alphabets.
        konart 5y ago
        Again - the issue is that this breaks default layout. Obviously any keyboard with at least 33 keys will be enough for me to just place the alphabet on them. The problems is that this breaks everything. Anyhow - after a bunch of keyboards all I can say is that 60-65% ones are the best. I get everything I need - not more, no less.
blumomo 5y ago
Happy System76 Laptop user here, too! However nothing goes over the programmable, ergonomic split keyboard „Kinesis Advantage 2LF“ ;-) https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  ergodox and moonlander come immediately to mind as things i'd use over an advantage2, for native QMK support if nothing else.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  In the world of mechanical keyboards I'd consider a kinesis to be mid range. Definitely a great keyboard, not terribly different from a Maltron or other ergo boards.
  - eigenspace 5y ago
    As a happy user of a Moonlander, I think the Kinesis has some nice advantages, namely the fact that the keys on each split are in a recessed well. I think that might have some ergonomic advantages, but I haven't tried one yet so I'm not sure.
    - aseipp 5y ago
      I am a new Moonlander user (for ~4 months now) who switched from a Kinesis1/2 after over 10 years of use. The well feels nice for e.g. the "d" column to be deeper than "f", so your longer index finger rests a little more naturally. I don't think it's a significant world-changing advantage, just one of those nice minor design touches. Honestly the bigger problem was that after 10 years of use, your hand position with any keyboard will cause you to hold it poorly at first with a new one, if the layout is massively different. The first 48 hours with the Moonlander were rough until I found the proper spacing and setup for them...
      - eigenspace 5y ago
stronglikedan 5y ago
> Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Wireless keyboard Have you tried the Surface Ergonomic KB? All the goodness of the sculpt (even better IMHO) with a full layout. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-keyboard/90pnc9ljwpx9 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-keyboard...
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  I don't think the Surface Ergonomic KB comes with an elevated palm rest (which I like in the Sculpt).
- 37ef_ced3 5y ago
  I use the Sculpt on my lap, never on a desk The Surface Ergo is too wide. The Sculpt is more symmetrical and narrow, by omitting the number pad, etc., on the right-hand side
officeplant 5y ago
I like my sculpt I have at work. The casing is starting to crack after a year for some reason, but everything is functioning fine.
anotherevan 5y ago
I love the MS Nat Ergo 4000 and thought the Sculpt would be a good successor, but find I really dislike it. I find the short key travel hard to adjust to (lots of typos), and the mushy ESC key was not conducive to Vim editing. (P.S. I've a 10 finger touch typist. Learned in school in the '80s on manual typewriters.) Funny how our experiences are so disparate.
- 37ef_ced3 5y ago
  The tiny escape key is a defect of the Sculpt keyboard But I have caps lock mapped to ctrl (I hit it with my pinkie) and the windows key mapped to escape (I hit it with my thumb) Almost all hardcore Vim users map ctrl and escape. It's standard practice Also, I use the Sculpt on my lap, never on a desk The MS Nat Ergo 4000 is too wide and asymmetrical for my lap. Same is true of the MS Surface Ergo. The Sculpt is more symmetrical and narrow, by omitting the number pad, etc., on the right-hand side

threatofrain 5y ago

$285! Wow...

radicaldreamer 5y ago
Still cheaper than most Topre boards...
coldtea 5y ago
In the mechanical keyboard market, this price is not very special, even for keyboards with much less functionality (e.g. no USB 3.2 hub) and made of plastic. Heck, there are keycapp sets that sell for $100-$200 alone...
- threatofrain 5y ago
  Mmm but then I compare it to this. https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-gmmk-pro-75-barebone-white-reservation https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-gmmk-pro-75-b...
  - Macha 5y ago
    > SWITCHES > Not Included Not really comparing like for like here, you're comparing a base to build your own keyboard with a full keyboard at the listed price points.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    That's just the base plate alone for $100. No keycaps, no usb-c 3.2 hub, no accessories, and so on.
    - puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
      100$ is just the reservation price, which is deducted from the actual price at the time of ordering (which is $169)
lsllc 5y ago
If you're using it on a Mac, then it'll save you $40 because it's got 2x USB-A ports! (Apple charge $19 for a USB-C to A).

tw04 5y ago

Man if System76 is listening, or any keyboard manufacturer for that matter: please make a mechanical version of the ms ergonomic keyboard. All the other "ergonomics" seem to be trying too hard and have layouts that are so different from a standard keyboard as to be annoying. The MS one was perfect in every way, just needs mechanical keys.

stronglikedan 5y ago
> ms ergonomic keyboard Hopefully you mean the Natural Ergonomic KB 4000, because every incarnation since has borked the key layouts in some significant way. I have a collection of those bad-boys, so hopefully I'll never run out, cuz they're getting harder to find.
- tw04 5y ago
  Definitely the KB 4000. I have a collection as well and still use them on occasion. I even researched and found one guy who converted his to mechanical but the amount of effort and time is well outside of what I could dedicate to a project like that.
- bozzcl 5y ago
  Only keyboard I’ve ever bought more than one of.
- anotherevan 5y ago
  One of mine lasted so long the little nubs on the J and F keys had worn away. I had to scar them with an old soldering iron to I could position my hands by touch again.
manquer 5y ago
Perhaps MS has some patents/IP protecting their design ? It may be why no one is doing it? . Even if the patents are questionable , small OEMs would not want to risk facing MS legal.
- morsch 5y ago

handelaar 5y ago

In what sense am I "configuring" this when the only thing I can change on it is the switch feel?

coldtea 5y ago
It's not about ordering different configurations. It's about the keyboard being configurable, or as they say: "Remap keys, swap keycaps, and configure multiple layers to your liking. (...) Seamlessly adjust the layout with the Keyboard Configurator application. Because changes are saved to the keyboard’s firmware, you can use your custom layout at any workstation. (...) Included key puller makes it easy to pop and place keys where you want them. Extra keycaps are provided in different sizes, contours, and red and blue accent colors. (...) Use four layers for personalized application shortcuts, adjusting hardware functions, non-QWERTY layouts, and more."
porcc 5y ago
QMK-compatibility means that you can flash the keyboard with your own firmware, written in C. Quite a lot of potential for extension, macros, and odd bits and bobs of USB-compatible things like midi, steno protocols, and mouse movement.
aidenn0 5y ago
That's just their store template I assume; all of the PCs they sell have a lot more than just one option.

zzo38computer 5y ago

Is good you can customize, open-source, N-key rollover, and some other things, but it lacks some keys such as a number pad and some others, and doesn't seems to have PS/2 (I don't like USB), so I think that I will keep the keyboard that I currently have. (I also don't need full lighting like that)

loloquwowndueo 5y ago
Why don’t you like USB ?
- macleginn 5y ago
  USB controllers are usually unable to provide more than 6-key rollover. Some keyboards offer two parallel cables for 12-key RO, but for real NKRO you basically need PS/2.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    I wouldn't say "usually" anymore. I was just able to mash 18 keys at once on my non-exotic keyboard and have them independently register. NKRO over USB isn't that rare now.
  - open-paren 5y ago
    Maybe that was the case in the past, but I don't think that's true anymore. Using this[0] page, it will register as many keys as I can mash without triggering a global hotkey. [0]: http://gadzikowski.com/nkeyrollover.html http://gadzikowski.com/nkeyrollover.html
- abfan1127 5y ago
  I googled ps2 vs usb and found this - https://www.how2shout.com/technology/usb-vs-ps2-the-battle-between-the-old-and-the-new-which-is-better-lets-find-out.html https://www.how2shout.com/technology/usb-vs-ps2-the-battle-b...
- fsflover 5y ago
  On Qubes OS, USB devices are isolated from the system to prevent BadUSB attacks. This makes using a USB keyboard quite complicated and less secure: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/device-handling-security/#usb-security https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/device-handling-security/#usb-s....

CarelessExpert 5y ago

Kinda curious how this compares to something like the Drop Alt, which seems to have the same feature set for $100 less: https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard

jefurii 5y ago
For one, with System76 I can at least look at the damn thing without having to create a friggin' account.
- _jal 5y ago
  Try https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard?mode=guest_open https://drop.com/buy/drop-alt-mechanical-keyboard?mode=guest... It is stupid legacy from before they pivoted, not sure why they still do that.
eigenspace 5y ago
This website won't even let me look at a high-res photo of the keyboard or see specs without signing up. What is wrong with these people?
sascha_sl 5y ago
The Alt is essentially dead for this price point, not that is was ever particularly good. The stabilizers in particular is something Drop never got right. The GMMK Pro is the current disruptive force on the market, alongside boards that are entering semi-permanent stock like the Novelkeys NK65 or the KBDfans KBD67 Lite. At this price point, and in a few other ways, this board from System76 is a joke. All the modifier keys are non-standard size (more in the pool of exotic), probably avoid putting any stabilizers on the thing. And that weird indent on the Tab key. This smells like designing the keyboard according to Keycap availability. Pretty sure you can find those exact caps on Aliexpress for 40-50 dollars. The keycap profile is a super weird choice. I love DSA and XDA (this is XDA), but they're not exactly a good experience out of the box for someone who has been working on Cherry or OEM. If you want a board with this layout, check out the GMMK Pro or ID80. The ID80 in particular requires that you buy parts yourself, but that's worth it just for the keycap availability. Both also support QMK.

chrisBob 5y ago

Yeah for split spacebars on a programmable keyboard! I currently use and love a Kinesis Freestyle Pro, and would consider this for my next keyboard. My favorite feature of the Kinesis board is that it is programmable and has a split spacebar. The split/ergo shape is okay, but I don't think I will ever get another keyboard that doesn't at least have a split spacebar and a way to program it. With half of my spacebar acting as fn and then arrows, backspace, delete and escape on the fn layer move my hands around MUCH less than on a normal keyboard.

hysan 5y ago

Not a fan of the shortened right Shift key. I’ve always thought of this as an over optimization to save space. Second thought - at this price point, I would expect this to be a split keyboard. Will this be in a future iteration?

colllectorof 5y ago

$285.00? Too expensive. It's not even a matter of whether I can afford something of this sort. I simply feel awful when I overpay for something that seems like a hipster product. Cut out the USB hub and seemingly useless RGB LEDs, bring down the price a bit and maybe I'll bite. I do appreciate features like N-key rollower and programmable firmware, as well as being assembled in US. Ambivalent about aluminum chassis. (I.e don't mind it, but wouldn't mind good plastic either.)

dathinab 5y ago
Smallish non Chinese or Taiwanese company producing a mechanical keyboard with replaceable keys, QMK firmware, LED's and you are most times at a price around this. And for people which like a clean setup the building hub is grate. Just kinda pointless in case you have a laptop and a usb dock. EDIT: Also just guessing but no LED and no HUB would probably reduce the price by at most 50$. Most cost don't come from parts but producing in small amounts, development etc.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Not sure about that. I’ve got a Durgod K320 TKL cherry MX red silent switches and bought mac keytops for it and it’s half that price in the US. Also doesn’t have some fucked up weird keyboard layout that makes it impossible to use another keyboard for 3 months if you have to change.
  - errantspark 5y ago
    I believe that's not "non chinese/taiwanese"?
    - hughrr 5y ago
      Sorry missed that. Had a long day :)
- bluGill 5y ago
  The LEDs are less than a buck each in any form of quantity. A USB hub chip is cheap too, but I don't know what the right search term is. If it lowered the price by $50, it is only if you have a time machine and the ability to get them to not design it with that in the first place. (high speed USB does have some interesting requirements on board layouts - but I'm not enough off an engineer to know how bad those are in practice) In reality doing a new layout so there is no hub will cost more than just selling these and letting people configure the LEDs off.

zamalek 5y ago

I'm a Kailh Box Jade user, I love them to bits, but I understand that I am extremely niche. It's an interesting choice to sell them in prebuilts to a wide audience. There's also tons of rattle in both sound tests, possibly stabilizers or the springs. I strongly recommend lubing the springs if you do pick one of these up (4-5 hours of work). Lubing the Jade clickbar also changes the sounds from a "thack" to a "thock," without changing the tactile profile much (unlike regular tactile switches). Something to consider if you find that the Jade pitch is unpleasant.

amatecha 5y ago
I like Jade and Navy .. so nice! I'd love to build a keyboard using either of those sometime. But I already have too many keyboards... (not that that's ever stopped me yet haha)
sascha_sl 5y ago
Lubing box switches on the mechanism is not recommended. Just the spring. Box switches are designed to be self-cleaning. If you want a thock in a box switch, get Royals. If you want that effort of lubing to go up to days, you could use multiple layers of RO-59. That's a bonding lubricant, so the effect will not even close to be as pronounced, but you can't get it off easily.

dathinab 5y ago

Hm, I guess another option. I'm want to buy a mechanikal keyboard with QMK firmware (one which supports Tab Dance). I'm just not sure which. This one doesn't look bad, but then I'm more interested into something with a slightly more ergonomic key arrangement. I also thought about the Moonlander, but it's even more pricey then this one.

eigenspace 5y ago
The sad reality currently is that if you want ergonomic design, mechanical switches, and customizable open source firmware, you're going to have to pay for it. The Moonlander is basically mid-tier in terms of price for a ergonomic mechanical keyboard. For what it's worth I'm very happy with my Moonlander, but I would have had a hard time convincing myself to bite the bullet and pay for the keyboard myself if my employer hadn't offered to cover the bill. I'm glad I did though, it made a big difference for my achey, unhappy hands.
hughrr 5y ago
Durgod k320 is dirt cheap and supports QMK firmware. I haven’t tried the firmware myself as the default is fine. I don’t customise my stuff heavily so I don’t have problems using other peoples computers occasionally.
- dathinab 5y ago
  > I don’t have problems using other peoples computers occasionally. I know what you mean ;=) But I really really want tab dance functionality, switched esc-caps and a few other things. And this things being configured in you keyboard instead of the OS make it just a lot less annoying.

waffenklang 5y ago

No ISO, no money.

hughrr 5y ago
This. That tiny little enter key is laughable once you’ve got used to iso layouts.
aaomidi 5y ago
And I'm the opposite, ISO layouts suck for me.
- waffenklang 5y ago
  And thats fine for you! But as a keyboard maker System76 could have make it optional as a lot of other keyboard maker are able to do.

neonological 5y ago

I would pay $500 for this keyboard if I can put it in the dishwasher. Seriously that's my dream keyboard. Mechanical, high quality and washable in the dishwasher or just washable like a dish.

procinct 5y ago
Probably doesn’t quite solve your problem exactly but these days you can get hotswappable keyboards that allow you to take the full switch off without needing to get your soldering iron out. You won’t be able to literally wash it but it should make cleaning a fair bit easier I imagine.
- neonological 5y ago
  I have one. Not only that, the switches are external to the keyboard so nothing for the debris to fall into. Still. You know how many keys the keyboard has? Come on man. I want to put the keyboard in the dishwasher and call it a day. Honestly, I'd like my laptop to be dish washable too but that might be a little too farfetched.
dddw 5y ago
There are dishwashable keyboards, but in combination with mechanical not

frompdx 5y ago

This looks very nice. Most importantly, the profile isn't too high. I have a Keychron K6 and Vortexgear Pok3r. The Pok3r is about right even though it is a little taller than this keyboard. The K6 is far too tall to be comfortable. I think the price isn't for a programmable keyboard with swappable switches. PBT keycaps are also much better than ABS, another fault of the K6. These days I'm typing on a Kinesis Advantage2 for ergonomic reasons and I just can't see myself going back to a 60% or 65% keyboard. I hope System76 considers making an ergo with the features of this board in the future.

cassepipe 5y ago

Trying to take advantage of of the wisdom of all of you keyboards nerds out here. Are you aware of any good/wonderful keyboard replacement for a laptop? I am assuming that they are standard for a given laptop size which might be totally wrong. Anyways if any such thing existed, I'd love to upgrade.

rekabis 5y ago

No hardware Dvorak option? For shame. There are dozens of us! Dozens!