6 ms·

One need only go back about 80 years to find horrific abuses by public health officials in both Europe and America (e.g. involuntary sterilization, to say nothi

One need only go back about 80 years to find horrific abuses by public health officials in both Europe and America (e.g. involuntary sterilization, to say nothing of Nazi experimentation). What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things…

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
As a European I believe in science and medicine. But I have read the history books: there were a bunch of Christ idiots in the 1970s who refused the polio vaccination and it did not end well for them.
- dang 5y ago
  Could you please stop posting flamewar comments and/or unsubstantive comments to HN? We're trying for something other than this here.
Thorrez 5y ago
Unfortunately involuntary sterilizations were happening more recently than 80 years ago too. Virginia's compulsory sterilization law was repealed in 1974[1]. Oregon performed its last compulsory sterilization in 1981[2]. Japan didn't abolish compulsory sterilization until 1996[3]. There are reports that detained immigrants were involuntarily sterilized in 2020 in the US[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#Compulsory_sterilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Unite... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952537/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952537/
8note 5y ago
You don't have to go back far at all to find corporations doing evil either, and yet America forgets how bad they are on a daily basis.
herbst 5y ago
This is not entirely true. All the political parties and ideas from back then are gone. The government was replaced completely multiple times and time has changed to the better. IMO the past is not hidden at all in fact we are regularly reminded about all these things, we just embrace our better future.
- garmaine 5y ago
  Are they? There's plenty of far-right parties in Europe, some of which have even entered into governments or came close to it. And in any case the core threat isn't fascism per se, but the darker aspects of human nature which remain unchanged. The USA after all didn't have a fascist government in that time period but nevertheless performed widespread involuntary sterilizations. More relevant to the circumstances under consideration, the CDC itself performed secret experiments on human subjects as recently as the 1970's--infecting black men with syphilis without their knowledge, just to watch the results. Or the 1980's when the FDA an CDC turned their back on AIDS victims for political reasons, because it was largely gay men who were dying. Europeans seem to think that they are above all this and such atrocities could never, ever happen again. But history shows otherwise, and human nature remains the same. Checks and balances and eternal vigilance is how you make sure it really doesn't happen, which requires the belief that it seriously can happen again.
  - herbst 5y ago
    As said I don't think Europeans generally think that way. We are very aware about things that happened, sometimes more sometimes less, but we have a long history we are not always proud of and build our future based on that knowledge. We do not have, and also never really had, this kind of far right here in Switzerland. Our most right party is very liberal. I think you are generalizing Germany to Europe.
    - garmaine 5y ago
      France and the UK have far-right parties that poll well, as did Sweden recently. It’s not just Germany.
imtringued 5y ago
>What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things… Everyone knows about these things. By everyone I mean everyone who went to the same schools as me.
- podgaj 5y ago
  Knowledge is not emotional, empathy is.
gadders 5y ago
Don't forget the Tuskagee Study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

As a European I believe in science and medicine. But I have read the history books: there were a bunch of Christ idiots in the 1970s who refused the polio vaccination and it did not end well for them.

dang 5y ago
Could you please stop posting flamewar comments and/or unsubstantive comments to HN? We're trying for something other than this here.

Thorrez 5y ago

Unfortunately involuntary sterilizations were happening more recently than 80 years ago too. Virginia's compulsory sterilization law was repealed in 1974[1]. Oregon performed its last compulsory sterilization in 1981[2]. Japan didn't abolish compulsory sterilization until 1996[3]. There are reports that detained immigrants were involuntarily sterilized in 2020 in the US[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#Compulsory_sterilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Unite... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952537/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952537/

8note 5y ago

You don't have to go back far at all to find corporations doing evil either, and yet America forgets how bad they are on a daily basis.

herbst 5y ago

This is not entirely true. All the political parties and ideas from back then are gone. The government was replaced completely multiple times and time has changed to the better. IMO the past is not hidden at all in fact we are regularly reminded about all these things, we just embrace our better future.

garmaine 5y ago
Are they? There's plenty of far-right parties in Europe, some of which have even entered into governments or came close to it. And in any case the core threat isn't fascism per se, but the darker aspects of human nature which remain unchanged. The USA after all didn't have a fascist government in that time period but nevertheless performed widespread involuntary sterilizations. More relevant to the circumstances under consideration, the CDC itself performed secret experiments on human subjects as recently as the 1970's--infecting black men with syphilis without their knowledge, just to watch the results. Or the 1980's when the FDA an CDC turned their back on AIDS victims for political reasons, because it was largely gay men who were dying. Europeans seem to think that they are above all this and such atrocities could never, ever happen again. But history shows otherwise, and human nature remains the same. Checks and balances and eternal vigilance is how you make sure it really doesn't happen, which requires the belief that it seriously can happen again.
- herbst 5y ago
  As said I don't think Europeans generally think that way. We are very aware about things that happened, sometimes more sometimes less, but we have a long history we are not always proud of and build our future based on that knowledge. We do not have, and also never really had, this kind of far right here in Switzerland. Our most right party is very liberal. I think you are generalizing Germany to Europe.
  - garmaine 5y ago
    France and the UK have far-right parties that poll well, as did Sweden recently. It’s not just Germany.

imtringued 5y ago

>What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things… Everyone knows about these things. By everyone I mean everyone who went to the same schools as me.

podgaj 5y ago
Knowledge is not emotional, empathy is.

gadders 5y ago

Don't forget the Tuskagee Study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study