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As the Atlantic noted recently [0] there are many who see masks and safety measures due to COVID as part of their political identity. Likes guns to some, the ma

As the Atlantic noted recently [0] there are many who see masks and safety measures due to COVID as part of their political identity. Likes guns to some, the masks, more critically the forcing of others to wear masks and abide by certain precautions, has become a weapon in politics. My distrust of the masks, and friction at being forced to wear one, really comes from that distrust of those who are forcing me; they are forcing me for politics, not for health and safety.

xwolfi 5y ago
I could comprehend annoyance, but what political gain do you expect them to obtain once you wear your mask in full submission ? At best that you dont get sick, at worst that you dont contaminate other. I really dont see the link between "we must provide an advantage on the job market to black people", a political side we can disagree on, and "wear a mask", something that bring nobody any pleasure nor comfort nor advantage...
- eternalban 5y ago
  What political gain does the Islamic Republic of Iran get when it forces women to wear head coverings? What political gain does a ruling clique get when e.g. they force people to admit "2+2=5"? About the falsity of "two plus two equals five", in Room 101, the interrogator O'Brien tells the thought criminal Smith that control over physical reality is unimportant to the Party, provided the citizens of Oceania subordinate their real-world perceptions to the political will of the Party; and that, by way of doublethink: "Sometimes, Winston. [Sometimes it is four fingers.] Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once".[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5
CraigJPerry 5y ago
With that logic, the compulsion to send your kids to school in the USA is on shaky ground.
- vletal 5y ago
  Is not the US education system very ideological? Among the US citizens (mostly LA area) which I know it was not uncommon to hear how they "love America", similarly to how Christian believers "love Jesus". Moreover from what I understand the local historical textbooks are censoring displeasing moments from the time of oppression of the black community. I'm far from an anarchist yet I would take my kids out of the system if I found a meaningful alternative which would not cost a fortune.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    The US education system is inconsistent, so you can't really generalize. I love America, but I'm also aware of its flaws and don't have any illusions about it being perfect or anything like that. I was also taught plenty of material about the darker sides of American history: slavery, mistreatment of natives, etc. Similarly I learned a lot about 'family health', science, etc. However some schools might lean more towards non-scientific teachings or leave out unsavory material depending on what school you inspect. Your tone makes me wonder if you're German; having studied German for many years, we learned about how Germany has somewhat of a complex around country pride given certain historical events. My school system had people from over a hundred countries and love for your country was almost universal, including to the extent of wearing clothing with the national flag on it like some Americans do
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Local history curriculums never push into anything that would be politically uncomfortable locally. This is usually done by requiring certain things be taught in great detail in order to preclude time being spent on other things.
sitkack 5y ago
What about the rest of the people around the world wearing masks, are they treading on the rights of people to not infect their loved ones? Why is it political here, when it is a matter of global public safety?
kelnos 5y ago
First off, you didn't link this supposed article that claims what you're arguing. But I just don't believe it. If the Atlantic published that, they sought out the small minority of people who believe that in order to make waves. Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It is just a prudent measure you can take to help protect yourself and -- often more importantly -- others. It isn't a guarantee that you won't get (or give someone) COVID, but it can help, when combined with other things like social distancing. It's funny, because my perception is the opposite of yours: that people who refuse to wear masks have turned that into a political identity. That somehow refusing to wear a mask is the patriotic, freedom-loving thing to do. When the fact is that they're just selfish, and view that refusal as marking themselves as part of a tribe.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I see friends of mine who, having celebrated the science behind the CDC pro-mask recommendations for the last 12 months, be suddenly appalled at the change in recommendations and seeming to want to cling the disrupted life a little longer for reasons known mostly to them.
- makomk 5y ago
  Probably this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberal... It's not just the mask wearing either. It's things with much more substantial actual harm, like keeping schools closed well past the point it was unjustified, along with the belief that anyone who won't deny kids education is evil and a completely inaccurate understanding of the level of risk to them. Also, you're politicizing mask wearing right here in your comment: "It's funny, because my perception is the opposite of yours: that people who refuse to wear masks have turned that into a political identity. That somehow refusing to wear a mask is the patriotic, freedom-loving thing to do. When the fact is that they're just selfish, and view that refusal as marking themselves as part of a tribe." That you think of anyone who doesn't wear a mask as an evil, selfish right-winger is 100% politicisation.
antiterra 5y ago
Decades ago, I heard similar arguments against restricting smoking in restaurants or public areas. To smoking proponents, smoking in line at the drug store was basically a constitutional right, and if you didn’t like cigarette smoke, just don’t smoke. It didn’t register that filling the air with cigarette smoke could encroach on the liberty of others.

xwolfi 5y ago

I could comprehend annoyance, but what political gain do you expect them to obtain once you wear your mask in full submission ? At best that you dont get sick, at worst that you dont contaminate other. I really dont see the link between "we must provide an advantage on the job market to black people", a political side we can disagree on, and "wear a mask", something that bring nobody any pleasure nor comfort nor advantage...

eternalban 5y ago
What political gain does the Islamic Republic of Iran get when it forces women to wear head coverings? What political gain does a ruling clique get when e.g. they force people to admit "2+2=5"? About the falsity of "two plus two equals five", in Room 101, the interrogator O'Brien tells the thought criminal Smith that control over physical reality is unimportant to the Party, provided the citizens of Oceania subordinate their real-world perceptions to the political will of the Party; and that, by way of doublethink: "Sometimes, Winston. [Sometimes it is four fingers.] Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once".[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5

CraigJPerry 5y ago

With that logic, the compulsion to send your kids to school in the USA is on shaky ground.

vletal 5y ago
Is not the US education system very ideological? Among the US citizens (mostly LA area) which I know it was not uncommon to hear how they "love America", similarly to how Christian believers "love Jesus". Moreover from what I understand the local historical textbooks are censoring displeasing moments from the time of oppression of the black community. I'm far from an anarchist yet I would take my kids out of the system if I found a meaningful alternative which would not cost a fortune.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  The US education system is inconsistent, so you can't really generalize. I love America, but I'm also aware of its flaws and don't have any illusions about it being perfect or anything like that. I was also taught plenty of material about the darker sides of American history: slavery, mistreatment of natives, etc. Similarly I learned a lot about 'family health', science, etc. However some schools might lean more towards non-scientific teachings or leave out unsavory material depending on what school you inspect. Your tone makes me wonder if you're German; having studied German for many years, we learned about how Germany has somewhat of a complex around country pride given certain historical events. My school system had people from over a hundred countries and love for your country was almost universal, including to the extent of wearing clothing with the national flag on it like some Americans do
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Local history curriculums never push into anything that would be politically uncomfortable locally. This is usually done by requiring certain things be taught in great detail in order to preclude time being spent on other things.

sitkack 5y ago

What about the rest of the people around the world wearing masks, are they treading on the rights of people to not infect their loved ones? Why is it political here, when it is a matter of global public safety?

kelnos 5y ago

First off, you didn't link this supposed article that claims what you're arguing. But I just don't believe it. If the Atlantic published that, they sought out the small minority of people who believe that in order to make waves. Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It is just a prudent measure you can take to help protect yourself and -- often more importantly -- others. It isn't a guarantee that you won't get (or give someone) COVID, but it can help, when combined with other things like social distancing. It's funny, because my perception is the opposite of yours: that people who refuse to wear masks have turned that into a political identity. That somehow refusing to wear a mask is the patriotic, freedom-loving thing to do. When the fact is that they're just selfish, and view that refusal as marking themselves as part of a tribe.

sokoloff 5y ago
I see friends of mine who, having celebrated the science behind the CDC pro-mask recommendations for the last 12 months, be suddenly appalled at the change in recommendations and seeming to want to cling the disrupted life a little longer for reasons known mostly to them.
makomk 5y ago
Probably this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberal... It's not just the mask wearing either. It's things with much more substantial actual harm, like keeping schools closed well past the point it was unjustified, along with the belief that anyone who won't deny kids education is evil and a completely inaccurate understanding of the level of risk to them. Also, you're politicizing mask wearing right here in your comment: "It's funny, because my perception is the opposite of yours: that people who refuse to wear masks have turned that into a political identity. That somehow refusing to wear a mask is the patriotic, freedom-loving thing to do. When the fact is that they're just selfish, and view that refusal as marking themselves as part of a tribe." That you think of anyone who doesn't wear a mask as an evil, selfish right-winger is 100% politicisation.

antiterra 5y ago

Decades ago, I heard similar arguments against restricting smoking in restaurants or public areas. To smoking proponents, smoking in line at the drug store was basically a constitutional right, and if you didn’t like cigarette smoke, just don’t smoke. It didn’t register that filling the air with cigarette smoke could encroach on the liberty of others.