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Is living the healthiest life you can live not the best option in every circumstance? It seems society as a whole wants a quick fix, no matter what the problem

Is living the healthiest life you can live not the best option in every circumstance? It seems society as a whole wants a quick fix, no matter what the problem is or the consequences from a cure.

rayiner 5y ago
No. This American fascination with “health” is very odd. My grandparents in Bangladesh lived as long as the average life expectancy in the US today, and they’re not even remarkable. Once you have antibiotics and make it past child mortality, you’re very close to hitting diminishing returns.
- smbullet 5y ago
  America has an enormous obesity problem which contributes to a significant number of Covid fatalities. When we tell Americans to get healthy it's mostly targeted towards those people.
  - ibejoeb 5y ago
    I agree with you entirely that there's an obesity problem. When it comes to covid deaths, though, the CDC report this week says that the vast majority--about 46%--are coinfections with flu. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm https://i.ibb.co/zscjxb6/Screenshot-2021-05-13-23-04-11.png https://i.ibb.co/zscjxb6/Screenshot-2021-05-13-23-04-11.png
    - epistasis 5y ago
      Not flu alone, but flu or pneumonia. What's the significance of this?
    - williamstein 5y ago
      Interesting. I followed your references and they say that the 46% comorbidity is "Influenza or Pneumonia". Covid is a cause of pneumonia (=infection of lungs), so your statement "46% are coinfections with flu" seems misleading to me.
      - ibejoeb 5y ago
        Flu also causes pneumonia, and they're listed together, so they're talking about flu and flu-related pneumonia. Everything in these numbers is connected to covid. That's the point. It's not my statement. You don't have to jump through hoops to indict me for linking.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    The rhetoric around “health” seems a lot broader than that.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  and make it past child mortality That's the hard part in less developed countries. In 1960 Bangladesh had a child mortality rate of almost 30%. At that time the US was under 3%. Even today with antibiotics etc., Bangladesh is about 5x higher than the US. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by America's fascination with health: I'm an American, so it of course would seem normal to me. But whatever we're doing, Bangladesh isn't a great comparison to cite as though they're on par with the US because life expectancy there is still about 6 years shorter.
  - walleeee 5y ago
    > I'm honestly not sure what you mean by America's fascination with health Might be referring to the tendency (of some) to track biomarkers in meticulous detail, pay not-insignificant sums for personalized "health plans", stress about exact quantities consumed of various substances, etc This is not every American of course, only a relatively privileged minority, but I'm not surprised it seems a strange way of living to some, indeed it does to me (also an American) Maybe it's a form of compensation: i.e., if one feels powerless regarding health-incident factors affecting the public at large (like plastic and chemical contamination in water supplies and household products, herbicides/pesticides and seed oils and antibiotics and excess fat/sodium/sugar/etc in food) one might micromanage personal health decisions to regain a sense of control
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    There’s a reasonably famous anecdote I saw about that time on Pakistani television, from Qudratullah Shahab’s (federal civil servant at then time) autobiography. The US was sending sanitary aid to Pakistan and the East Bengalis asked for their fair share of it and were told sitting there in the federal secretariat building by the West Pakistanis “Go use a banana leaf” (to wipe your @$&!?!)
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      “Go use a banana leaf” the history of what people have resorted to using over the centuries is pretty interesting. There's even a satirical book named Gargantua & Pantagruel written in the 1500's France where characters debate the most comfortable option. IIRC, they settle on a life goose's neck: the feathers make it quite soft. In the US, a dried out corn cob was a popular choice during the early days, before the 1900's when toilet paper really hit the mainstream. Likely not for comfort though, just because it was what was available. It's probably not great for the average health of a population if they use discarded food that might be partially rotting to wipe their butts. Actually
- harryh 5y ago
  A lot of the discussion of "health" in the US is actually coded conversation about physical attractiveness.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    Interesting observation. In Bangladesh we have blunter conversations about how people look. On meeting my wife, my mom’s first reaction was “she’s pretty. And not fat!” On a recent birthday, she said of me: “you’ve aged. And not well!”
FunkyDuckk 5y ago
I think you run into a blurry line of what is the healthiest possible. Everything has a risk tolerance.
LordHumungous 5y ago
Definitely not.
robbrown451 5y ago
Sure. And living the healthiest life can include getting vaccinated and wearing a mask. Are you suggesting we just eat good foods and exercise, and that alone will protect us from dying from COVID? I can see an argument that lockdown has had consequences. Mask wearing too, but to a lessor degree. But the vaccine? I'm not seeing serious consequences other than the cost to get it out there. Seems like a win-win, once it exists. Is there something I'm missing?
- omosubi 5y ago
  Long term effects of an unproven technology? Who knows what this will do to your body in 10 or 20 years?
  - zuminator 5y ago
    While you're not wrong, who knows what actually catching Covid will do to your body in 10 or 20 years? At least there we actually have evidence that it could in some cases cause long term deleterious effects.
- nradov 5y ago
  It's not a guarantee, but eating good foods and exercising protects most people from dying from COVID-19. Even among the the older cohort, most of the dead have had co-morbid conditions such as obesity. Relatively few patients with normal blood sugar levels and insulin responses have died. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

Is living the healthiest life you can live not the best option in every circumstance? It seems society as a whole wants a quick fix, no matter what the problem is or the consequences from a cure.

rayiner 5y ago

No. This American fascination with “health” is very odd. My grandparents in Bangladesh lived as long as the average life expectancy in the US today, and they’re not even remarkable. Once you have antibiotics and make it past child mortality, you’re very close to hitting diminishing returns.

smbullet 5y ago
America has an enormous obesity problem which contributes to a significant number of Covid fatalities. When we tell Americans to get healthy it's mostly targeted towards those people.
- ibejoeb 5y ago
  I agree with you entirely that there's an obesity problem. When it comes to covid deaths, though, the CDC report this week says that the vast majority--about 46%--are coinfections with flu. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm https://i.ibb.co/zscjxb6/Screenshot-2021-05-13-23-04-11.png https://i.ibb.co/zscjxb6/Screenshot-2021-05-13-23-04-11.png
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Not flu alone, but flu or pneumonia. What's the significance of this?
  - williamstein 5y ago
    Interesting. I followed your references and they say that the 46% comorbidity is "Influenza or Pneumonia". Covid is a cause of pneumonia (=infection of lungs), so your statement "46% are coinfections with flu" seems misleading to me.
    - ibejoeb 5y ago
      Flu also causes pneumonia, and they're listed together, so they're talking about flu and flu-related pneumonia. Everything in these numbers is connected to covid. That's the point. It's not my statement. You don't have to jump through hoops to indict me for linking.
- rayiner 5y ago
  The rhetoric around “health” seems a lot broader than that.
ineedasername 5y ago
and make it past child mortality That's the hard part in less developed countries. In 1960 Bangladesh had a child mortality rate of almost 30%. At that time the US was under 3%. Even today with antibiotics etc., Bangladesh is about 5x higher than the US. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by America's fascination with health: I'm an American, so it of course would seem normal to me. But whatever we're doing, Bangladesh isn't a great comparison to cite as though they're on par with the US because life expectancy there is still about 6 years shorter.
- walleeee 5y ago
  > I'm honestly not sure what you mean by America's fascination with health Might be referring to the tendency (of some) to track biomarkers in meticulous detail, pay not-insignificant sums for personalized "health plans", stress about exact quantities consumed of various substances, etc This is not every American of course, only a relatively privileged minority, but I'm not surprised it seems a strange way of living to some, indeed it does to me (also an American) Maybe it's a form of compensation: i.e., if one feels powerless regarding health-incident factors affecting the public at large (like plastic and chemical contamination in water supplies and household products, herbicides/pesticides and seed oils and antibiotics and excess fat/sodium/sugar/etc in food) one might micromanage personal health decisions to regain a sense of control
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  There’s a reasonably famous anecdote I saw about that time on Pakistani television, from Qudratullah Shahab’s (federal civil servant at then time) autobiography. The US was sending sanitary aid to Pakistan and the East Bengalis asked for their fair share of it and were told sitting there in the federal secretariat building by the West Pakistanis “Go use a banana leaf” (to wipe your @$&!?!)
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    “Go use a banana leaf” the history of what people have resorted to using over the centuries is pretty interesting. There's even a satirical book named Gargantua & Pantagruel written in the 1500's France where characters debate the most comfortable option. IIRC, they settle on a life goose's neck: the feathers make it quite soft. In the US, a dried out corn cob was a popular choice during the early days, before the 1900's when toilet paper really hit the mainstream. Likely not for comfort though, just because it was what was available. It's probably not great for the average health of a population if they use discarded food that might be partially rotting to wipe their butts. Actually
harryh 5y ago
A lot of the discussion of "health" in the US is actually coded conversation about physical attractiveness.
- rayiner 5y ago
  Interesting observation. In Bangladesh we have blunter conversations about how people look. On meeting my wife, my mom’s first reaction was “she’s pretty. And not fat!” On a recent birthday, she said of me: “you’ve aged. And not well!”

FunkyDuckk 5y ago

I think you run into a blurry line of what is the healthiest possible. Everything has a risk tolerance.

LordHumungous 5y ago

Definitely not.

robbrown451 5y ago

Sure. And living the healthiest life can include getting vaccinated and wearing a mask. Are you suggesting we just eat good foods and exercise, and that alone will protect us from dying from COVID? I can see an argument that lockdown has had consequences. Mask wearing too, but to a lessor degree. But the vaccine? I'm not seeing serious consequences other than the cost to get it out there. Seems like a win-win, once it exists. Is there something I'm missing?

omosubi 5y ago
Long term effects of an unproven technology? Who knows what this will do to your body in 10 or 20 years?
- zuminator 5y ago
  While you're not wrong, who knows what actually catching Covid will do to your body in 10 or 20 years? At least there we actually have evidence that it could in some cases cause long term deleterious effects.
nradov 5y ago
It's not a guarantee, but eating good foods and exercising protects most people from dying from COVID-19. Even among the the older cohort, most of the dead have had co-morbid conditions such as obesity. Relatively few patients with normal blood sugar levels and insulin responses have died. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm