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He's single handedly accelerated the adoption of electric cars by 10 years while advancing literal rocket science to the point where launches will be done 10x c

He's single handedly accelerated the adoption of electric cars by 10 years while advancing literal rocket science to the point where launches will be done 10x cheaper. For those of us who measure by outcomes, he's a genius.

jreese 5y ago
> He's single handedly Tesla employs almost 80k workers, and SpaceX employs almost 10k. Elon might have had the idea, but it's the employees that made it possible and a reality.
- api 5y ago
  Traditional car companies and traditional aerospace employ far more people, and those people are not dumb. Leadership matters. I do agree that it isn't "single-handedly," but when I hear Elon speak he definitely does shout out to the team. I haven't heard him take 100% credit for these things.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > Elon might have had the idea, and the money to convert the idea into execution with a high probability of losing his money.
- refurb 5y ago
  Without Musk would that same group of people accomplished those things?
mbesto 5y ago
> He's single handedly Fun reminder, Musk did not start Tesla and bought his way into the company. His involvement should not be understated, but it's had years of management shuffles and changes of direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.
- intotheabyss 5y ago
  I'd also note that SpaceX wouldn't be where it is today without Gwynne Shotwell.
- kevinbache 5y ago
  No doubt, but he has been something special.
  - mbesto 5y ago
    That's what you think. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Yes but he still stayed in there when everything was going to shit and got enough investors to keep the company alive and now the company is doing quite well.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Tesla proved rich people buy rich people things. SpaceX proved government budgets aren't scrutinized enough. Not particularly shocking.
- nickik 5y ago
  What an idiotic thing to say. This is just pure 'I don't like this person so I'm gone shit on everything he does' syndrome. Rich people buy rich people things, yes, and it matter if its a gas car or an electric. And it matter if the battery industry was transformed by that. And it matters that the image of electric cars was transformed. It matters that the largest fast charging network in the world was financed by this. SpaceX proved that they could make things the government already does massively cheaper. Literally read any report from NASA or GAO. NASA own evaluation showed that the 300M SpaceX spend on the initial Falcon 9 would have cost 3 billion if done by the government. Since SpaceX join the race military launches have come down in price by sometimes multiple 100 million $. ULA even outside of the 300M$+ launch prices, received an extra 900M every year. Literally everything the government is buying from SpaceX could literally not be done cheaper by any other government, foreign or domestic or company foreign or domestic. When SpaceX got started the commercial launch market was basically 0% US launchers, SpaceX alone changed that to depending on you calculate 50-90% of the commercial market now. There is seriously not a single argument you can make about SpaceX other then simply arguing the government should be doing spaceflight at all. Everything we know about government internals suggest that both NASA and DoD are beyond happy with SpaceX.
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    >NASA own evaluation showed that the 300M SpaceX spend on the initial Falcon 9 would have cost 3 billion if done by the government. interesting, can you cite that?
    - jakeva 5y ago
      This is the citation used by Wikipedia https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf
reader_mode 5y ago
>accelerated the adoption of electric cars by 10 years Did it really ? Tesla rode on the advances of battery tech driven by mobile devices, there were other EV efforts arround the time Tesla came up. I agree they recognised it early on and made it fasionable + they had this narrative driven market valuation which pressured other automotive execs to invest in the EV narrative. But 10 years is way too much - battery tech advancements were bound to bring us to this point even without Tesla R&D (I think they only started using their advancements recently, before that it was just stock batteries ?), and there was enough money in batteries from other markets to drive advancement without the EV push. Not denying Tesla played a big positive role in this, but certainly not 10 years IMO.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > Did it really ? Electric cars were a gimmick before Tesla, almost no-one was taking them seriously, after Tesla that changed.
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    Sure, if you don't count the Chrysler TEVan, the Ford Ranger EV, the honda ev plus, the Toyota RAV4 EV... also, if you ask me, a super expensive sports car should still count as a "gimmick". I give Tesla credit for reigniting excitement about EVs, but lets not oversell their achievement.
    - King-Aaron 5y ago
      > Chrysler TEVa The what? > the Ford Ranger EV The what? > honda ev plus The what? > Toyota RAV4 EV The what? If you mention Tesla to literally anyone, they know about the cars. The product, and the marketing of it, have definitely brought EV's into the mainstream. Before that, very few consumers knew anything about EVs, maybe with the exception of the GM EV1. Now electric cars are a common sight on the road.
      - reader_mode 5y ago
andrepd 5y ago
I hate this "capitalist-worship" for lack of a better term. He "single-handedly" did nothing, he merely supplied the capital and the coordination for a team of ~hundreds of thousands of people to build rockets and EVs.
- marcusverus 5y ago
  This isn't an attack on your collectivist worldview, it's an objective observation. It's simply a matter of fact that if there was no Elon Musk, reusable rockets would have been delayed two decades at a bare minimum. The same goes for transforming EVs from clunky sideshows to "S3XY" vehicles. Hence, he single-handedly made these changes happen.
  - AngryData 5y ago
    There is no way to say that with certainty. SpaceX is far from the only rocket company and while yes, they have had great success, their success only makes it harder for other rocket companies to stand out and succeed. What if another company was just a a year or two behind SpaceX but got their funding shit on when SpaceX launched their rocket? SpaceX is standing on the shoulders of giants, if SpaceX didn't exist, the science and people wouldn't just disappear.
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 5y ago
      I disagree. Competition is good.
    - Xplune13 5y ago
      I don't think anyone is saying that without SpaceX science and people wouldn't exist. But, SpaceX and Tesla for sure accelerated the EVs market and reusable rockets. I don't think anyone could've created this level of buzz around their companies. Main thing being that most of the general public now knows about Tesla and SpaceX and the awareness around EVs and reusable rockets. Now, I'm not saying Musk is some godsend or something, but he definitely played big role in creating this buzz around space travel and EVs. > their success only makes it harder for other rocket companies to stand out and succeed. Of course it does. That's one of the main points of one's success and it is true for every single field in existence. By that logic, no one should succeed because that would make it difficult for others? I strongly disagree with that one.
HacklesRaised 5y ago
Single handedly? I'll say the same as when people described Steve as a genius, he is an accomplished marketing machine but genius is reserved for the like of Einstein and Feynman. Do you think SpaceX and Tesla were Musk's idea? Or were they the recommendation of the MBAs hired to research subsidized industries with significant barrier to entry? It is not that he isn't successful but he is no genius, he just has the money to overcome, what otherwise would be, impossible hurdles. I am glad he's beating bezos to the punch though, it takes a special kind of business to make Walmart look like the good guys. I think Tesla is a horrible car, exactly the wrong vehicle to address the climate crisis but it seems we are addicted to the car and consider public transit some kind of badge of shame. EVs, specifically autonomous EVs should be targeted at the last mile, IMHO. I'm not trying to be contrary, I dislike musk because I think he's dishonest and a narcissist.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Because genius can only exist in physical sciences and mathematics. That's all I got from your post.

jreese 5y ago

> He's single handedly Tesla employs almost 80k workers, and SpaceX employs almost 10k. Elon might have had the idea, but it's the employees that made it possible and a reality.

api 5y ago
Traditional car companies and traditional aerospace employ far more people, and those people are not dumb. Leadership matters. I do agree that it isn't "single-handedly," but when I hear Elon speak he definitely does shout out to the team. I haven't heard him take 100% credit for these things.
sumedh 5y ago
> Elon might have had the idea, and the money to convert the idea into execution with a high probability of losing his money.
refurb 5y ago
Without Musk would that same group of people accomplished those things?

mbesto 5y ago

> He's single handedly Fun reminder, Musk did not start Tesla and bought his way into the company. His involvement should not be understated, but it's had years of management shuffles and changes of direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.

intotheabyss 5y ago
I'd also note that SpaceX wouldn't be where it is today without Gwynne Shotwell.
kevinbache 5y ago
No doubt, but he has been something special.
- mbesto 5y ago
  That's what you think. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Yes but he still stayed in there when everything was going to shit and got enough investors to keep the company alive and now the company is doing quite well.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Tesla proved rich people buy rich people things. SpaceX proved government budgets aren't scrutinized enough. Not particularly shocking.

nickik 5y ago
What an idiotic thing to say. This is just pure 'I don't like this person so I'm gone shit on everything he does' syndrome. Rich people buy rich people things, yes, and it matter if its a gas car or an electric. And it matter if the battery industry was transformed by that. And it matters that the image of electric cars was transformed. It matters that the largest fast charging network in the world was financed by this. SpaceX proved that they could make things the government already does massively cheaper. Literally read any report from NASA or GAO. NASA own evaluation showed that the 300M SpaceX spend on the initial Falcon 9 would have cost 3 billion if done by the government. Since SpaceX join the race military launches have come down in price by sometimes multiple 100 million $. ULA even outside of the 300M$+ launch prices, received an extra 900M every year. Literally everything the government is buying from SpaceX could literally not be done cheaper by any other government, foreign or domestic or company foreign or domestic. When SpaceX got started the commercial launch market was basically 0% US launchers, SpaceX alone changed that to depending on you calculate 50-90% of the commercial market now. There is seriously not a single argument you can make about SpaceX other then simply arguing the government should be doing spaceflight at all. Everything we know about government internals suggest that both NASA and DoD are beyond happy with SpaceX.
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  >NASA own evaluation showed that the 300M SpaceX spend on the initial Falcon 9 would have cost 3 billion if done by the government. interesting, can you cite that?
  - jakeva 5y ago
    This is the citation used by Wikipedia https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf

reader_mode 5y ago

>accelerated the adoption of electric cars by 10 years Did it really ? Tesla rode on the advances of battery tech driven by mobile devices, there were other EV efforts arround the time Tesla came up. I agree they recognised it early on and made it fasionable + they had this narrative driven market valuation which pressured other automotive execs to invest in the EV narrative. But 10 years is way too much - battery tech advancements were bound to bring us to this point even without Tesla R&D (I think they only started using their advancements recently, before that it was just stock batteries ?), and there was enough money in batteries from other markets to drive advancement without the EV push. Not denying Tesla played a big positive role in this, but certainly not 10 years IMO.

sumedh 5y ago
> Did it really ? Electric cars were a gimmick before Tesla, almost no-one was taking them seriously, after Tesla that changed.
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  Sure, if you don't count the Chrysler TEVan, the Ford Ranger EV, the honda ev plus, the Toyota RAV4 EV... also, if you ask me, a super expensive sports car should still count as a "gimmick". I give Tesla credit for reigniting excitement about EVs, but lets not oversell their achievement.
  - King-Aaron 5y ago
    > Chrysler TEVa The what? > the Ford Ranger EV The what? > honda ev plus The what? > Toyota RAV4 EV The what? If you mention Tesla to literally anyone, they know about the cars. The product, and the marketing of it, have definitely brought EV's into the mainstream. Before that, very few consumers knew anything about EVs, maybe with the exception of the GM EV1. Now electric cars are a common sight on the road.
    - reader_mode 5y ago

andrepd 5y ago

I hate this "capitalist-worship" for lack of a better term. He "single-handedly" did nothing, he merely supplied the capital and the coordination for a team of ~hundreds of thousands of people to build rockets and EVs.

marcusverus 5y ago
This isn't an attack on your collectivist worldview, it's an objective observation. It's simply a matter of fact that if there was no Elon Musk, reusable rockets would have been delayed two decades at a bare minimum. The same goes for transforming EVs from clunky sideshows to "S3XY" vehicles. Hence, he single-handedly made these changes happen.
- AngryData 5y ago
  There is no way to say that with certainty. SpaceX is far from the only rocket company and while yes, they have had great success, their success only makes it harder for other rocket companies to stand out and succeed. What if another company was just a a year or two behind SpaceX but got their funding shit on when SpaceX launched their rocket? SpaceX is standing on the shoulders of giants, if SpaceX didn't exist, the science and people wouldn't just disappear.
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 5y ago
    I disagree. Competition is good.
  - Xplune13 5y ago
    I don't think anyone is saying that without SpaceX science and people wouldn't exist. But, SpaceX and Tesla for sure accelerated the EVs market and reusable rockets. I don't think anyone could've created this level of buzz around their companies. Main thing being that most of the general public now knows about Tesla and SpaceX and the awareness around EVs and reusable rockets. Now, I'm not saying Musk is some godsend or something, but he definitely played big role in creating this buzz around space travel and EVs. > their success only makes it harder for other rocket companies to stand out and succeed. Of course it does. That's one of the main points of one's success and it is true for every single field in existence. By that logic, no one should succeed because that would make it difficult for others? I strongly disagree with that one.

HacklesRaised 5y ago

Single handedly? I'll say the same as when people described Steve as a genius, he is an accomplished marketing machine but genius is reserved for the like of Einstein and Feynman. Do you think SpaceX and Tesla were Musk's idea? Or were they the recommendation of the MBAs hired to research subsidized industries with significant barrier to entry? It is not that he isn't successful but he is no genius, he just has the money to overcome, what otherwise would be, impossible hurdles. I am glad he's beating bezos to the punch though, it takes a special kind of business to make Walmart look like the good guys. I think Tesla is a horrible car, exactly the wrong vehicle to address the climate crisis but it seems we are addicted to the car and consider public transit some kind of badge of shame. EVs, specifically autonomous EVs should be targeted at the last mile, IMHO. I'm not trying to be contrary, I dislike musk because I think he's dishonest and a narcissist.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
Because genius can only exist in physical sciences and mathematics. That's all I got from your post.