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Framework founder here. Happy to answer any questions anyone has on the product!
by nrp 5y ago
Framework founder here. Happy to answer any questions anyone has on the product!
- ssivark 5y agoHi, thanks for hanging around; the idea seems exciting! A few questions (likely FAQs): 1. How much thicker & heavier is this laptop than similar screen size MacBook Pro and Thinkpads? (Is the battery life comparable?) 2. Is there soldered-on RAM and/or expansion slots? 3. Can this run linux without any hitch? —— PS: Website seems to be down for now. > Framework is undergoing maintenance right now. Please check back in a few minutes.
- nrp 5y agoThe website is back up! We're at almost exactly the same thickness and weight as a MacBook Pro 13-inch, and lighter and thinner than most T-series ThinkPads. The storage, both memory sockets, and WiFi are socketed for upgradeability, and the entire mainboard is upgradeable too! We're testing for compatibility with major linux distributions, and expect near complete support (with potentially only the fingerprint reader driver coming in later).
- uncletaco 5y agoWhen is the website coming back up
- nrp 5y agoBack up now! We upgraded some infrastructure quickly to handle the massive influx of visitors.
- zipityzi 5y agoI think it’s down again if you click the configurations. Home page is sometimes up, but that’s also down some of the time. “ 500 Internal Server Error If you are the administrator of this website, then please read this web application's log file and/or the web server's log file to find out what went wrong.” The hug of death.
- rpdillon 5y agoGot all the way to checkout, but couldn't order. I'll keep checking back!
- nrp 5y agoThanks for your patience! We're upgrading infrastructure further, but the website is very much still struggling under the load. On that note, we're hiring a Backend Engineer if anyone is interested! https://jobs.lever.co/framework/6935fb47-2921-49df-b94c-e45c52a1b9a9 https://jobs.lever.co/framework/6935fb47-2921-49df-b94c-e45c...
- foodstances 5y agoWhat was the point of signing up for pre-order emails and following your launch if it was going to be announced everywhere at the same time? Your website is down and it was impossible to complete a pre-order checkout because of all the errors.
- nrp 5y agoSorry for the go-live shakiness. The website is up and running solidly now. We sent out the email to the mailing list this morning with the intent of letting folks get in and order as the news started to trickle out. In reality though, there was an immediate, massive influx of traffic (in part from HN) that brought down the website. Lessons learned for the future.
- willtim 5y agoThis is a noble effort and you can certainly take the moral high-ground over companies like Apple. However, often the problem is not only whether parts are replaceable but also availability of spares. For example, my 2016 X1 Carbon needs a new battery and it is easily user-replaceable, yet Lenovo no longer make or sell them. How can you make sure that parts are available, especially if your suppliers stop making them?
- nrp 5y agoWe're committing to making compatible parts available. Part of how we're doing this is continuing to use this design and architecture going forward for the foreseeable future. This means that as we continue to refresh the specs each year, modules like the battery, display, and others will remain cross-compatible. This makes it easier for us to keep suppliers bought in for the long-haul.
- dflock 5y agoHow long is long?
- myself248 5y agoWhat's the UEFI / secure boot situation like? Say someone's been considering a Purism machine, how does the Framework compare?
- robotnikman 5y agoAny plans in the future to include a discrete GPU option?
- nrp 5y agoWe likely won't within this 13.5" form factor, since even with a discrete GPU there would be some problematic thermal budget tradeoffs with the CPU. GPU modularity is definitely a compelling area though!
- zipityzi 5y agoThank you so much for starting this project and hopefully long-term investment. Incredibly refreshing. The site is down for the moment. What is the situation about warranty? Do you plan to offer multi-year options? I’m all for repairing my own laptop, but if there is an option to pay upfront for some peace of mind on at least the parts, I’d bite.
- nrp 5y agoWe offer a pretty standard 1-year limited warranty. Extended warranties are something we are exploring, but are not available yet.
- zipityzi 5y agoThank you for the reply. Great to hear it's on Framework's radar. While the reparability helps (as I'm used to even $800 laptops calling for $300 screens + webcam + Wi-Fi antenna), if it's profitable for Framework, it'd be an instant buy here.
- dilippkumar 5y agoCongratulations on your launch! How do you track quality during development, production, product planning and polling for customer satisfaction? Can you share some thoughts on the current state of quality assurance in the industry in general? Is this an area for product differentiation?
- nrp 5y agoWe have both Quality and Customer Experience teams to span quality from the sub-suppliers and manufacturing through to customers, so that we can close the loop on any field issues.
- an_opabinia 5y agoIn what country are the laptops manufactured? Which three parts in a laptop have the highest failure rate, and what are those rates? What I can’t wrap my head around is, a consumer that feels strongly about repairing laptops themselves, for clearly non-economic reasons, but would balk at the cost of a laptop manufactured in the West, which is 100% of the labor the day the laptop ships, because then the computer would cost 3 times as much.
- nrp 5y agoWe manufacture subassemblies and most modules in China with final assembly in Taiwan. In typical consumer notebooks, batteries, hinges, ports, and keyboards would be parts that wear out over time. We've designed the Framework Laptop to make each of those easy to swap as needed.
- samstave 5y agoDo you have an exploded diagram of all the individual parts?
- nrp 5y agoWe'll be publishing repair guides showing all the parts and assembly steps. In the meantime, you can check out some of the images that show modules: https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition
- samstave 5y agoDopes. The QR Code in the transparency section doesnt work: https://i.imgur.com/TjfcWOP.png https://i.imgur.com/TjfcWOP.png "page doesnt exist"
- nrp 5y agoYes... good catch. We wondered if people would start scanning that image. That will redirect into our product pages and repair guides before we start shipping units out.
- simon_weber 5y agoAny idea when reviewers will get their hands on it? It'd be nice to have some reviews prior to pre-orders going out.
- nrp 5y agoDefinitely! We'll be sending out review units before we start shipping out to customers.
- questionableans 5y agoHave you tested the laptop’s materials for offgassing? I’ve had problems with offgassing odors that never seem to go away on multiple monitors, MacBooks and an iPad in recent years. This leads to headaches that makes it impossible to use the machines for more than a few minutes, even with good room ventilation. It would be great to buy a laptop that is known to be low offgassing. I was wondering if a Framework laptop would have less glue and could be more effective offgassed in a shed by disassembling the components and ventilating.
- alisonkisk 5y agoWhat do you suspect is the chemical that is new and widespread?
- questionableans 5y agoI doubt it’s just one chemical, but various kinds of plastics and adhesives, and possibly some electronic components are all likely contributors. For example, on the 8th gen. iPad, the keyboard connector is surprisingly smelly. Heat increases the rate of offgassing, so a medium amount of heat in well power managed devices can draw out the time for which there is noticeable offgassing for years. I have found if you can burn-in a computer or TV with heavy load (and consequently heat) for say a month or two, that usually takes care of it. But some mobile devices (especially fanless ones) are “too good” at thermal management, making this difficult. And even for devices with fans, you want to run them in a clean environment so you don’t prematurely fill the fans up with dust or worse.
- LawnGnome 5y agoMaybe more feedback than questions, although if there are roadmap items that would address these it'd be good to know! I'm really excited about this — besides repairability, I think the USB-C expansion cards are great, and a really neat solution to a tricky problem. I love the idea of never having to carry a USB-C dongle ever again, particularly when travelling. The blocker that is stopping me ordering this today (besides being in Canada) is: 1. The display. I've spent the last several years using laptops with higher resolution displays (either Macbook Pros or, more recently, a 4k Dell XPS 13), and honestly, I'm not going back. It's a shame that the one thing that doesn't seem to be upgradeable right now is the screen configuration. (I realise that the Framework's display isn't exactly low-res, but it feels like it's going to be in an uncanny valley of not quite HiDPI/Retina.) Beyond that, other things I wish were different (or at least clearer), but which aren't blockers: 1. Like other commenters, I don't use Windows, and I don't particularly want to pay for a Windows licence. 2. There's no mention I can see on the product page of how many external displays are supported, and in what configurations, and that's important to me. 3. I'd probably be more comfortable if some late pre-production units had made it to independent reviewers for judging things like battery life and the display. (I'd love to see an Anandtech breakdown of a Framework!)
- nrp 5y agoWe're pretty happy with the display. At a little over 200 PPI, it is basically just over the edge of "retina" where pixels aren't visible at normal viewing distance, while being less power-hungry than a 4k panel. We offer the DIY Edition without Windows pre-installed, and will be publishing compatibility reports for popular Linux distros. With Intel 11th Gen CPUs, the Framework Laptop handles up to four simultaneous displays (which can be 4x external displays if you turn off the internal one). We'll be making review units available before we start shipping products out.
- LawnGnome 5y agoI really appreciate the response. Thanks!
- skratlo 5y ago
- SuchAnonMuchWow 5y agoThank you very much for what you build. It's amazing, and will be the perfect replacement for my aging laptop. The only thing missing for me is an ethernet port (which I need to connect to the internal network at work). Do you have any plan to add it as an extension card ? If no, any technical reasons why not ?
- nrp 5y agoThanks! We are developing an Ethernet Expansion Card. Due to the size of the receptacle and magnetics required, it'll bump out rather than being flush like the other cards, but still more convenient than an external dongle.
- motiejus 5y agoSame here, I am looking for something that does have rj45. Some dell latitude laptops have a connector that "packs" itself, making it slim enough to be buit-in, without bumps. Is this an option for you folks? How much do you think it will bump out? Will the laptop be stable on an even surface?
- m463 5y agoWhen Apple came out with flat keyboards (~2007/2008?) the entire industry copied the trend. The tops of the keys are flat, giving very little "context" to your fingers for accurate typing. It is hard to find the center or edges of the keys, which would be easier on sculpted keys which are concave and conform to your fingers. Do manufacturers even make keyboards like that for laptops anymore?
- nrp 5y agoWe put a lot of effort into great keyboard feel on the Framework laptop, both in terms of key travel (1.5mm) and key shape. There are limits to what you can do in a 15.85mm thick machine, but we stack up well compared to most other thin and light notebooks on keyboard quality.
- fomine3 5y agoThinkPad?
- m463 5y agocoincidentally I was reading this article yesterday: https://www.notebookcheck.net/X1-Carbon-Gen-9-Lenovo-has-to-be-careful-with-the-ThinkPad-keyboard.537996.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/X1-Carbon-Gen-9-Lenovo-has-to-...
- fyrn- 5y agoWhy go with an intel plastform right now when AMD laptops CPU are lapping intel ones for heavily multithreaded work like compiling? I suspect for developers which probably represent a larger than normal segment of your potential customers, that AMD cpus would have been the better choice for battery life and multithread?
- fomine3 5y agoUnlike other market offering by Intel, Tiger Lake is good choice especially for lightweight mobile laptop.
- MaxBarraclough 5y agoSimilar to the question from myself248: Does it run on Free Software? Put another way, what would the FSF Respects Your Freedom programme [0] make of it? How does it compare to the Purism Librem machines? [0] https://ryf.fsf.org/about/criteria https://ryf.fsf.org/about/criteria
- MaxBarraclough 5y agoAn update for anyone reading: looking at [0], they're planning on moving to an open BIOS, but it's not top priority right now. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150566
- skratlo 5y agoWhy did you choose Intel over AMD?
- GordonS 5y agoThe lack of upgradability of laptops is a huge problem, especially when so many come with 16GB or even a piddling 8GB of RAM - I'm excited to see you guys actually shipping! Do you have any plans to sell in the UK and Europe, through a distributor or otherwise?
- nrp 5y agoYes! We'll be selling directly to consumers in several countries in Europe (and UK) and Asia before the end of the year.
- pkulak 5y agoThat resolution is so close to 2X! Why not just a little bit denser so that desktops can integer scale instead of 1.8x? EDIT: Just did the math and your screen is 200dpi... which is very close to the 220 or so I'm used to on high-dpi, 13" screens. Maybe close enough that it won't matter?
- frmwklptpq 5y agoSpecial shout-out and thanks regarding: > To maximize eye comfort, we use a DC mode backlight controller instead of a PWM one that can cause visible flickering I hope this still stands, and it uses true DC dimming. If so, thank you so much! These days it is hard to find non-PWM laptops even in premium segment. Even high-frequency PWM is not great for eyestrain, so DC dimming is really appreciated! Some manufacturers go as low as 250HZ. p.s. If anyone wants to check if your display has PWM: 0. All OLED screens utilize PWM. They are terrible to view in low light environment. This means that all new phones and OLED laptops are terrible for night reading, don't do it! If you are curious about headaches after extensive screen time, guess no more. 1. For LCD laptops, however, set display brightness at 10% (can try different settings in low range, too) 2. Open some bright content (e.g. blank white page) and go to some completely dark room. 3. Using phone camera's preview screen, set it to photo mode and play with different settings of exposure (in pro/advanced settings) while pointing at the screen: try 1/8000, 1/250, etc. Also try slow-motion capture of the screen. High-frequency PWM (new Mac laptops) is quite bad, but hard to detect without special equipment, but still can easily put eyestrain. Low frequency PWM is much easier to detect with just a phone camera.
- anigbrowl 5y agoHi, thanks for your availability and a cool product. I wonder if you plan to make the hardware spec (or parts thereof like the form factor) open source? It's nota deal breaker if you don't, but would be a big plus if you do (although more challenging from a business logic standpoint, but Red Hat seems to have done OK).
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoI recall reading previous HN thread where they said they were / would permit / encourage others to build compatible component.
- nrp 5y agoYep, that is right. We're releasing reference CAD and documentation under open licenses for some modules like the Expansion Cards to enable community development.
- dmayle 5y agoHi! I've got two questions about input: 1. Will there be an ISO option for the keyboard layout? (To support non-US layouts, and for those who aren't familiar, just changing the key mapping isn't sufficient, ISO has an extra key and a different shape on the enter key) 2. Any plans to support Sensel touchpads? The tech is really amazing (I've heard the latest described as better than a macbook)
- nrp 5y agoYes, we have some photos on the website currently showing ANSI and ISO keyboard geometry. As we continue to add more keyboard languages, there will be both ANSI and ISO ones depending on the language (and JIS for Japan). The touchpad is replaceable, though we don't currently have plans for alternate types.
- kevinkeller 5y agoIs it possible to run the laptop directly off AC power, bypassing the battery? Alternatively, is it possible to cap the battery charging at, say, 60-80%? Since one of the key aspects of the laptop is the longevity and serviceability of the hardware, I am curious how the battery health can be managed.
- nrp 5y agoIt is! You can actually unplug or take out the battery and still be able to run the system. Configurable charge limits is on our firmware roadmap, though unlikely to be available at launch time.
- Matrixik 5y agoAny plans for display with at least 99% Adobe RGB (for working with pictures color grading)? Good uniform brightness would also be nice. It doesn't need to be as good as Eizo/Nec, but something on the level of BenQ PhotoVue would be nice. And if it supported hardware calibration that would be on completely another level.